Rawlplug just turning, how can I get a grip?

[Steven Campbell]

I put up one of those floating shelves which took 5 screws. It went on to a brick / plaster external wall. The rawlplugs said to use 7mm for the hole but I used a 6mm drill knowing the drill would probably wander slightly.

3 of the Rawlplugs don't seem to be catching at all and the screws just turn when they should be getting tight. I tried upping the screws to size 12 but its just the same. I'm beginning to think I never went into the brick but into the gaps between the bricks!

I'm not sure if I could get the rawlplugs out without digging into the wall which I'm reluctant to do as its just been all decorated. Also I can't move the shelf as its the only wall / height it can be it.

Any ideas on best way to get the screws to take?

Cheers

Steven.

[TMC]

Although the outer leaf of the wall is brick the inner could be lots of things e.g breezeblock (ok) or thermalite (very soft), the plaster could be direct to the wall or dot and dab (therefore a gap between the plaster and the blockwork behind

You may need to investigate a bit more

Tony

[Dave Liquorice]

Remove any shelf/brackets, put a screw into the end of the plug a turn or two then use a claw hammer or nail pliers to pull it out. Thin bit of scrap wood will protect the decoration agaist the levering. If the plugs are really loose you may be able to pull 'em out by hand using the screw.

You should have been able to tell if the holes hit joints/thick plaster or bricks by how easy or not they were to drill and/or by changes in the dust colour. Possible solutions small hammer in frame fixings or plug (or part) within a plug.

Were the fixings the ones supplied with the shelves or your own? I normally bin anything supplied as they never account for 10 to 15mm of plaster so are too short and the screws tend to be made of toffee.

[Mungo "Two Sheds" Toadfoot]

I'd fill the holes with Gripfill, personally, and hope the shelves were never coming down again.

Si

[EricP]

Take it down and put the screws into each plug until they bite and pull the plug out. Fill the hole with a matchstick or even cardboard and refit the plug.

Just pack the hole a bit more.

[Alan]

In message , Steven Campbell wrote

To get it out just screw in the screw (without the shelf). Once the screw thread just catches on the sides of the plug pull the screw out with a pair of pliers. The plug should come out with it.

To stop the plug turning put a match stick down the outside of the plug (after cutting off the match head)

[The Medway Handyman]

Or use Fischer Wet N Fix

[cj]

Another thing you could try is fitting a larger size plug (once you remove the old plug) As already posted the screw trick normally works but you can always run the drill in again to remove the plug. You posted using a 6mm bit. Normally a 5.5mm is used for Red plugs and a 7mm for Brown but if the plugs came with the shelf they could be any size . Try your local DIY store for plugs of different sizes.

HTH CJ

[The Medway Handyman]

Oh aint that the truth. Fisrt thing I usually do is bin the crap screws & fixings that come with anything.

Shock horror! Installed a Habitat curtain pole today - it had real Fischer fixings & proper pozidrive head decent screws!!!!!!!

I was stunned!

[Rod]

If you have some polyurethane glue I would think of this (which I have done quite a few times):

Spray the hole with a bit of water.

Coat the plug with some polyurethane glue.

Push plug in and leave for at least half an hour.

Once set, fix shelf. Full strength might take up to a few hours.

It hasn't happened to me, but you should keep an eye open in case the glue foams too much and starts to drizzle down the wall.

(This is based on another Fischer system - Fix & Fill IIRC.)

For your specific variant of the problem, you might be able to inject the polyurethane into the hole, i.e. into the centre of the plug. As it expands it will probably ooze out and hold the plug fast. But even if it doesn't, as you put a screw in it will be pushed outwards and help to fill the hole.

[stuart noble]

Often you can just whack a smaller plug into the bigger one, which effectively adds packing without removing the plug

[The Natural Philosopher]

Or fill the hole with CBF and then either ram the plug into that, or sinply use that as the plug istead!

[Andy Hall]

One point here is not to use this as a replacement for what should be a sound mechanical fixture. Polyurethane is not a good gap filler at all and not mechanically strong when used in this way. OK, if the plug is pretty much sound first.

I've used the polyester resin that is used with studs for resin fixings in this application. Clean hole (important), squirt a little into hole and push in plug. Leave for a couple of hours and rock solid.

The Ubiquitous and Wonderful Car Body Filler (UWCBF) can be used for this as well.

[Andy Hall]

Almost simultaneous replies. UWCBF comes to the rescue again.

I reckon that almost all DIY jobs can be done with this and an angle grinder.

[Andrew Gabriel]

For thermalite type blocks, don't use a masonary bit or hammer action. You want a clean cut parallel hole, for which they suggest using a HSS bit (not masonary).

[Rod]

I would certainly agree for a heavy duty function, that would be preferable, or even essential. But where I have played around with the polyurethane, I am convinced it is quite impressive - might even be better than when used in wood.

[stuart noble]

Hardly surprising since UWCBF is polyester resin

[Andy Hall]

I knew that there had to be a resin for it.

[The Medway Handyman]

Interesting that. In newish houses I always start by using a multi material drill without hammer. 80% of the time that does the job & a universal plug works a treat. I only switch the hammer action on if necessary. Very few problems.

[Andrew Gabriel]

Yes, my own rule, even in old houses, is to try without hammer action first.