After moving house in the last couple of weeks and rushing to get the house sorted before the arrival of my first child I am amazed by the number of tradesmen who never call you back with quotes etc.
B*stards.
Thank you for listening.
:)
K
Yes; it is grim. I presume these guys are too busy or do not like what you want them to do (too small or too fiddly or too hard) but it is really grim when they say they will do X and then never get back to you. It would be better if they were less polite and simply bluntly said they were not interested.
I heard of one lady (in Ireland) who showed a plumber a job (something small and fiddly) and the plumber said hang on a moment, and went to his van to get a tool and simply drove off. This was why I learned to do small plumbing jobs.
Wait 'til they turn up and start work, then you'll really have something to moan about :)
P.S. I hasten to add that given a choice between paying a good plumber to do a job and me doing it myself, I would go for the plumber every time, except for little things that I have now figured out for myself and from reading this newsgroup.
You need to remember Huge's 50% rule(s);
So you need to call 64 brickies to get one to come.
And
I had a better experience with plasterers in S. London.
Called loads, half said that they didn't want such a small job (kitchen ceiling). Nearly half said they were too busy. 1 said he was too busy but if I was stuck he might be able to fit it in.
Last bloke said he was OK, turned up, gave estimate, came and did job and communicated throughout (I wasn't resident in flat at the time due to impending sale). So I did have some of the 50%'s of Huge's Law but I didn't get any time wasting.
Course, it was an insurance job so he probably quoted from "scale B" so got a bit more profit. Also, I did say he could do the job when he liked - weekends, evenings (later the better to p*ss off the neighbour above who caused the job by having knackered plumbing - ha!)
They're not *all* bad...
Maybe I was lucky.
Timbo
From the other side of this:
A new customer is a risk - will they pay. Will they be pleased/pissed off with a good job for a reasonable fee? Will they start arguing the toss at every opportunity?
A house/flat I'm familiar with - I already know the approx size exact layout, age, type of construction, likely problems. This means that when someone rings up I can usually visualize the job, the size, difficulty and likely inventory required to do the job. This saves an unpaid reccy.
I am much more likely to respond to someone who says. "So and so says you did a good job and I wondered if you could also do the same for me?" than "I got you number from CORGI (I'm not in any other listings)..."
I am much more likely to want to respond to a specific known (profitable) requests like "I want a landlords' gas ticket" rather than "there is some damp coming in can you look at it?"
I am much more likely to respond to an unknown neighbour than someone unknown further away.
If these are true for me they are likely to be true for other workmen.
So
1) When you have a reasonable tradesman - treat with respect don't argue the toss. After all they are doing something for you that you can't or don't want to do, or maybe you time more valuable than theirs?2) Seek someone that has done satisfactory work for a local friend of yours.
3) Have a specific list of tasks to do rather than could you have a look at this...4) When you can trust a workman to be dilligent offer/accept a time and materials basis this is mutually fairer and stops the gambling on unseen problems and/or corner cutting.
Where I live, they don't call, one day they just appear and get started. Its strange to get used to.
Rick
Where do your live, Rick?
Anna
~~ Anna Kettle, Suffolk, England |""""| ~ Lime plaster repairs / ^^ \ // Freehand modelling in lime: overmantels, pargeting etc |____|
This is in North Wales, where most of the people who work neer where they live are farmers with a trade on the side, or builders who are fed up traveling to the cites to do jobs they don't get paid for - that is a very long list.
For example, I want a hedge cutting, its buy a petrol hedge cutter -
200 quid, or rent a 4wd mega machine, with driver that cuts it in an hour or so - 20 quid.I wanted a fence doing, they guy came, we agreed a price, he said he would be back. One day he rolls up, un-anounced, tractor, posts etc, and whips the thing up - no messing - I had no idea he would ever come back - too much city life I guess.
Brickie, told him I needed some help with using real stone rather than bricks, he rolled over one day, an hour on the phone and his mate turns up with a tractor and trailer of sand, and we are off. Again I had no idea he would actually turn up.
The list goes on, the best was when I screwed up digger driving, I phoned a friend of a friend, who said he would call back. 30 mins later this old guy turns up, a friend of his friend, and drives the thing like a mad man - got the job done though.
All the local farmers have a machine or two, they rent them out to each other, so one guy cuts the hedges for 10 farms, one pupms sewage for 50, one cuts corn for 20 etc .........
Rick
SNIP ...All the local farmers have a machine or two, they rent them out to
Same here in the Cumbrian bit of the Yorkshire Dales. Milkman who fits carpets; potter who plasters etc. Once you find out who does what and if you can cope with the unusual business arrangements and timings it works well (unfortunately all the plumbers in the area are full-timers and the rot has set in...)
tony
I have spent years out of my life looking for plumbers (in 4 different houses). In 3 of the houses, the guy who worked out best (turned up and knew what he was doing and charged a reasonable fee) was local. One was simply "the village plumber" and it was merely a case of discovering this from asking neighbours. Another was from the yellow pages but in a city (Cork) and I chose a bloke who had a home address just up the road. As you said below, he came. By luck, he turned out to be brilliant but very busy. The most recent one (Dublin), was from the nearest plumbers outfit.
So, what you say is true, look for someone nearby and/or ask around. Otherwise, finding plumbers is scary. You feel you are asking them to do something immoral. They also vary enormously in experience and common sense. Fortunately, I now know a little about plumbing and can guess what I need a plumber to do. For some folks though, it is not as clear cut (little ole ladies with the central heating not quite working right).
Des
SNIP
So you want 17 people to come round and give you a price, at their expense, for you to choose the (apparent) cheapest? Now do you see why they aren't interested?
We will not site survey now without payment of our standard callout fee. It is credited in full against the work carried out and means that the engineers time doesn't get wasted on those who either want a cheap job, or who are just filling the "3 estimates" requirements of insurance etc..
I want a radiator fitting in the conservatory, one says he can take it off the existing microbore (?) radiator in the next room, another said he'd have to take it off the upstairs normal guage supply. Neither phoned me back. A simple enough job I would think.
At the same time I asked for a price for a new boiler, so they had a small job and a big job to choose from, I guess plumbers are given mobiles with no dial out buttons so they can only receive calls.
K
No, I want 2-3 people to come 'round to give me a price, at their expense. Unfortunately, by calling 17 people I only managed to get 1 person to actually give me a price.
Er, they can't be arsed 'cause they've got plenty of easier jobs to do?
That's diabolical. I reiterrate my last statement of "If they demonstrated the *slightest* incling of customer service, I might have *some* sympathy for them when they go bust in a couple of years time, when the property market cools down a bit and everyone's learned how to do it themselves anyway..."
I don't know of any other industry where the customer has to *pay* the supplier just to get a price out of them!
Ludicrous.
Andy
Not at all - this is very reasonable.
If a business sends somebody to survey a job and submit a quotation, that is a fair amount of time taken, especially if the cost of the job is fairly modest anyway.
It really depends on the time and effort involved before a sale is made and the value of the job.
I frequently have situations where a customer would like to evaluate something. However this involves potentially several days work. Naturally I try to check suitability, but it isn't always possible. Therefore it is accepted practice to charge for that and refund against a later order.
For somebody offering services on a domestic level, there are three choices in this area.
- Provide free quotations and play the numbers game on which come in - absorbing the cost of the non-productive time
- As above but amortising the cost across other customers
- Making a refundable charge against an order.
There is more to this than just calling up and getting a price over the phone.
.andy
To email, substitute .nospam with .gl
demonstrated
So, when a customer phones you up, do you honestly expect them to call you and ONLY you? Do you not think it's *quite a good idea* to phone around for at least 2-3 quotes, given the number of rip-off merchants and cowboys out there?
I don't care what the job is. The quotation should be provided for FREE. Generally the time taken to quote will be proportional to the value of the job anyway so your valuable time will be rewarded accordingly. To expect customer to shell out 2-3 callout fees just to get a quote is utterly ridiculous and the fact that the industry takes your point of view as 'the norm' only goes to highlight the sorry state of affairs we're in.
Andy
Please will you trim to context?
Possibly not, but that's irrelevant.
Sadly, usenet is heavily populated with those who equate the cheapest price with the best value for money. When I'm looking for goods or a service, I go for recommendation or membership of a trade body. I don't phone every entry in Yellow Pages to see who quotes cheapest.
Obviously, but then you have no grasp of business.
Why? It costs money to send an engineer out, both time and travelling expenses. Why should we throw that money away, when there are plenty of customers who don't mess about pitting one company against another.
Only if the job is booked. Otherwise it is a waste of time and money, neither of which you feel you are liable to refund.
No-one is suggesting that at all. A realistic estimate of the cost will be given over the phone, so that way it costs nothing.
But in general, the industry (any service organisation) doesn't want the type of customer who wants everything cheap. They are ALWAYS trouble, expecting champagne for beer money. I would rather they went elsewhere.
I had a phone call earlier from a woman who already rang me a couple of days ago for a price. She is obviously trawling round everyone in the book trying to shave off the last penny. What she doesn't want to be educated about is the quality of the equipment to be installed. Now we could do a typical "cheap" job, with contractor equipment etc, but then she will be back on the phone complaining about it. Why bother, let the cowboys have the hassle, they come and go, we have been around since 1986 and intend to be around for a long time to come. Makes you think the business must be running correctly?
Not true. The last couple of times I've tried to get quotes for things (plastering a room and replacing my soil stack), the people who I have spoken too have insisted on coming to have a look rather than quoting over the phone. In both cases I was happy to provide any relavent info they wanted but their immediate responses were always "I'll come round and have a look". And I'm sure if charging to come and give a quote was the norm, we would be even less likely to get phone quotes.
I don't necessarily want everything cheap - but I want to get quotes from at least 3 people, especially when I have no idea how much a job should cost. If someone quotes way below the others, I'm instantly suspicious - and if someone comes round and is more helpful and seems more able than the others (in most cases I have general idea what is needed which has so far enabled me to get rid of anyone who is trying to exaggerate the scale of the job) I would be more likely to go with them.
I'm sure there aren't many businesses that would say "we've been around for a long time but intend to go bankrupt within the year" :-)
If it works for you, fine. But if I phone round for quotes and someone says "I'll come out, it will cost you £x" I won't go with them - their quote may be ludicrous anyway, in which case I've lost the callout fee for no gain. Why bother?
Jon
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