My mother-in-law is moving into a house built in the 1980's. It has a fairly modern consumer unit but no rcd. We asked a good electrician for a quote for a new consumer unit and some extra sockets but he wants to do a full inspection of the electrics of the house before he will quote for anything. He will charge =A3300 for the inspection.
When we got a new consumer unit in our house, about 5 years ago, installation and testing were all done at the same time, with necessary earth bonding done as necessary. A proper certificate was presented on completion.
Is it normal for electricians to insist on an inspection before doing any work, or should I get a second opinion?
Any decent electrician will want to know that there are no nasty surprises in the installation before starting something with such wide ranging effect as changing a consumer unit. Its too late when after changing the consumer unit to anounce that there are problems elsewhere in the installation. If he does carry out a periodic inspection you will receive a PIR report with any defects highlighted and coded for importance. This is your report so it can be copied and used by other electricians to base their quotes on if you obtain ore than one quote for the consumer unit replacement. Note that the regulations are not retrospective so the RCD may not be an issue unless you want it to be. The cost seems about right for a thorough job but do not agree to limitations of the scope of the inspection without good cause.
Yes. It's always wise to get more than one quote. Maybe try to give the impression that the house is yours, rather than belonging to a person to whom wiring and electrics are a mystery.
Ask him (and at least one other) to quote for a CU change with dual RCD, with basic IR test & MEB check. The latter two only take a few minutes, upgrading the MEB may be necessary or may not.
Changing a CU used to be "change the CU, switch the RCD, if it trips fix it" and that was professional jobs. Basically 1980 is unlikely to have a borrowed neutral on the hall lights, whose remedial is a little involved in terms of labour and potential decoration impact. It could have a load of bad DIY, or been a builder friday night installation in the first place. It could simply be a perfectly ordinary install, perhaps a loose CPC on one ring, a broken socket, etc.
What you must ensure is that any outdoor socket a) has RCD protection or b) is used with RCD protection via plug-in adapter etc.
On Wed, 8 Sep 2010 19:54:10 +0100 someone who may be "ARWadsworth" wrote this:-
I agree. I had one done for a shop earlier this year and it was about half that. The shop installation is larger than a typical house and three phase. The chap was very thorough, spending the whole morning going through everything. They also knew before they started that they were dealing with someone who could see how good they were, were probably not going to get any work out of it and so they should do it for a true price rather than an artificially low one.
Well, I would, but would deduct at least part of that if commissioned to do the work. Snag is plenty would like a free inspection then choose the cheapest quote based on the work it says is required.
The electrician who checked my installation for Part P conformity interpreted this in a rather different way. He said that any *indoor* socket that could be used for outdoor work (lawn mower etc.) should be RCD protected and refused to allow a plug-in RCD adapter as the means of providing the necessary protection. I think he was over-zealous but I had no choice but to comply.
That would be a reasonable interpretation of the regs.
If you did not have outside sockets that were RCD protected then it could be assumed that any socket in the house that is not RCD protected may be used for outside use via an extension lead.
Yes, I understand that point but was he correct in saying that a plug-in adapter isn't acceptable?
It's quite academic for me now but I had to replace a new CU with another new CU despite the fact that Wylex stated unequivocally that the first CU was suitable for use with an RCD protected adapter in sockets.
I'm not sure; I might have emailed or 'phoned them (Wylex) as they're a local company.
The inspection was for a Council 'Regularisation Certificate' for the work I'd already done. The certificate itself was very non-committal as if nobody wanted to take responsibility for certification.
As I said, it doesn't make any difference to me now but other people might query the wording of the regulations since almost any socket can potentially be used outside via an extension lead, as you said.
A valid point. And one where common sense applies and different electricians have different views. It is also the one point that I disagreed with my NICEIC inspector on (I am in favour of less RCDs) when I was inspected. We argued about the difference between potentially or reasonably may be expected to be used outside.
I have got my outside sockets on their own RCBO and the house sockets have no RCD protection. Now if this was a property that I was renting out then I would not consider this to be OK. A faulty appliance (lawnmower etc) could trip the RCBO and then the tenant could try using an extension lead from one of the inside sockets putting themselves in danger.
I suspect that if I was checking your installation that I too would have wanted to see the sockets on a RCD supply. I do not know you (other than from this newsgroup) and I cannot take your word that you or other persons in your house would always use the plug in adaptor when using appliances outside. That is not a dig at you but it is the only way I can cover my back when I am at work.
"...but it is the only way I can cover my back when I am at work."
Yes, this says all really - very understandable; everybody has to to be looking over their shoulder all the time to protect themselves from those who won't take sensible precautions even when well advised. Maybe I was a bit harsh in my judgement of the electrician / tester even if he could have helped a bit by suggesting that the first CU I'd installed could have been upgraded rather than completely replaced for a second new unit.
The problem with that is, you lose the house on a L-E or N-E fault. That is not ideal with someone on the stairs (for example) and the lights go out.
So a replacement CU with 2 RCD is a better solution.
Insulation Resistance check (IR):
1 - Perform an Insulation Resistance check of the whole installation to confirm there is no nail through a cable linking L-E or L-N or N-E.
2 - If a low figure is obtained the IR check is repeated this time at the individual circuit level to find out which circuit is affected, and then again for each cable within that circuit (usually after a quick visual check to see if a cable damaged by a wiring accessory screw which is Earthed through the Neutral conductor or similar).
Main Equipotential Bonding check (MEB): Confirm the link from your Main Earthing Terminal to the Cold Water pipe is sized correctly and within 600mm of entering the house, and the same for the Gas pipe also within 600mm of entering the house. Also, that the cable is either one continuous length (or suitably crimp/solder jointed) or two separate cables (which seems to be growing in popularity in case one gets lost/damaged).
Prescence of correct MEB is a requirement before any work may be performed on the installation, and a requirement of the DNO (electrical distribution network operator).
With a 1980s house it is a matter of checking if the original install was a) botched builder or ok and b) extended by a meddler or competent. Get more than one quote, a partial PIR should be combined into the CU change - or they should advise "if a circuit does not come on, I will need to investigate further", in which case you can ask "can you do an IR check before hand just to confirm if there is an obvious cable fault which would create an RCD trip situation". A 1980s is not likely to have old TRS rotted rubber wiring, borrowed neutral on the hall light, unless the builder was a bit french and took it all from his previous house :-) Paying =A3300 for a PIR is a bit like paying =A3300 for a diagnostic code reading of a) working car b) crushed car - an IR test is all that should be necessary on a 1980s unless "the builder did it with bell wire".
I've seen it done in 80s installs, twice. The 1st was nice neat bellwire with bare chockblocks at touch height. The 2nd was far worse, lots of bits of scrap wire & flex twisted together & strung overhead, bare joins. Some people!
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