Quality of different brands (MK, Crabtree, Volex & Marbo)

[John]

Perhaps the standard of sockets is being reduced to make us feel more inclined to go with the European standards!

[meow2222]

The Ashley system was to use an embedded switch operated by the plug pins. The socket only switched on when the plug was fully home, if it came out a couple of mm it switched off. It protected against plug pin touch, and also against overheating or arcing due to plugs coming part way out. And it didnt affect the plug ampacity.

I wonder why - we did, repeatedly.

NT

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Trying to remember when I've ever replaced a failed or worn out accessory. Of course a jobbing electrician will see this more often. Most domestically get replaced for cosmetic reasons.

[Andrew Gabriel]

I've never needed to replace any parts I've bought and fitted, but that's because I buy good quality parts in the first place (with the exception of the previously mentioned GET gridswitch parts, which I still buy for 12V use only, but I treat as consumables).

I have however replaced quite a number that were previously there when I moved in, or in other peoples' houses.

Even thinking of my parents house which is 50 years old, fortunately wired with PVC T&E and with nearly all MK wiring accessories, it has had only one of the original MK parts fail, which was a light switch which wore out. (Also the original Wylex wired CU started burning out, and I replaced it 10 years ago, when I rewired their kitchen due to new kitchen being fitted). Other than that, all the MK wiring and accessories are original, and still in perfect working order.

When I moved into my first house in 1986, it had been professional rewired in 1974, but just about every socket outlet was knackered. Some of this was down to faulty plugs from previous occupants which had damaged the sockets, but a lot of it was down to buying the cheapest, I suspect. Fortunately all the wiring behind was fine, although over the years, I think I gradually replaced it all as I tackled the decoration of each area of the house and properly fitted more outlets into the ring, and eventually split the ring into multiple separate rings, new CU, etc.

[Appin]

The message from [e-mail] contains these words:

Yes, but they were from another era. There were worse plugs around, in many ways. And at least they were easy to wire, which was a major issue in those far-off days when things didn't come with a plug on.

[Jason]

I think it depends where you buy it. B&Q, for example, seem to squeeze the manufacturers so that the same MK product from them is far inferior to one from someone else (at a little more cost). Dimmer switches are a case in point. I've had two dimmer switches of the exact same model apart - one from B&Q and one from an independent. The heat sink was smaller, and there were some surge protection components missing from the B&Q model.

-- JJ

[Tim S]

Jason coughed up some electrons that declared:

To quote the Shamen: "Naughty naughty, very very naughty"...

I've been re-evaluating things and am looking at Crabtree more now. Pity - GET had some very modular items, like grid light switches that would take a mixture of remote-button dimmers and normal switches - and also a range of

20A DP grid switches with annotated removable rocker covers, so if you swapped the dishwasher and fridge, you could swap the rocker covers on the isolators rather than move the plate.

Cheers

Tim

[Dave Liquorice]

*Exact* same model number of the packaging? How about the bar code?

B&Q do seem to be getting quite adept at walking just down the legal side of the line between illegal and legal. See the thread about kitchen unit pricing. Also take a look at the Karcher pressure washers in B&Q, you won't find them anywhere else or on the Karcher website. This gets 'em out the price match promise as you can't get the same product anywhere else, not illegal but not honourable IMHO.

[Appelation Controlee]

-------------------8><

There are zealots who will prevent that. As it is, we have to continue using plugs capable of serving a 3-bar electric fire (must be pretty rare these days) to connect appliances that draw bugger-all current. And before you leap in (you kow who you are ;-), I _do_ understand the implications of fuse positioning in the circuit.

[Dave Liquorice]

Er, our kettle is 3kW, we have a 2kW fan heater and an oil filled convector, I forget what that is rated at. The schuko is rated 16A so I'm not quite sure what your argument is.

So you do know the cost implications of the UK changing to schuko which is why it isn't going to happen, nothing to do with zealots.

[Mike Clarke]

Could it be that MK have recently started making the same model to a lower standard and you bought from B&Q more recently than the from the independent shop? Even if you bought from the independent more recently than from B&Q it's quite likely that an item from B&Q is newer because B&Q probably have a faster stock turnover than the independents.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Plenty of high current appliances still in use - washing machines, ovens, dishwashers, kettles, etc.

You seem to be advocating going back to when there were several different sizes in use and that - for those who remember it - was a nightmare.

If you do have an area where the size of 13 amp plugs is a problem - like say a computer installation - there's nothing to stop you using something smaller. IEC distribution blocks are readily available.

[Tim S]

Dave Plowman (News) coughed up some electrons that declared:

There are some nice IEC blocks with individual fuses per outlet too.

The fly in the ointment are the random bits of kit with wall-warts - the British 13A socket (and the ex British 15A still used in parts of the world, eg S Africa) and the German Shucko are about the only systems I reckon are strong enough to cope with those. Hanging them off a weedy 2 pin just seems like asking for trouble.

Cheers

Tim

[Rod]

The mix of 2, 5, 15 and 13 amp plugs was indeed a disaster. (Plus some odd two pin things.)

[Appelation Controlee]

That bit was an aside, and poorly thought through - thanks for the correction. :-) Most appliances, though, don't load the connection anywhere near its capability, but we still have to put up with a bloody great claw on the end of the lead. In the case of portable appliances, this is a bit of a PITA.

Yes obviously, but most contrary arguments in the past have centred on the fact that shuko plugs don't incorporate a fuse, thus leaving open the possibility ... etc., etc...

[meow2222]

There is a solution, one thats fully compatible, safe, and doesnt cause any extra expense. Its to use fused plugs that are a 2 pin version of today's bs1363 guage. New sockets would have 2 or 4 extra holes per socket, enabling the pluggng of one 3 pin device or 2/3 2 pin devices. A 3 pin plug could still be inserted into every socket in the land.

A note about shutters: new 2 pin plugs would not go into old sockets that use an earth operated shutter, as many do. Existing sockets that use a L&N operated shutter would be fine, and new sockets would need to use this type of shutter.

NT

[Rod]

Understood. But what we all really want is any new standard to permit use across frontiers as well.

We could have a 13A socket (as now) with a secondary socket incorporated. The Europeans could have a Schuko-style (or similar, as required), with the same secondary socket. And the US could have their standard with a secondary socket.

The socket would have an extra connection to permit devices to be wired for 110-only or 230-only or both.

(If this could be merged with power over Ethernet, we would be laughing!)

Between now and having such sockets fitted, a neat adaptor could be used

- appropriate to each market. (Multi-way adaptors should also be possible.) But the manufacturers of electrical items would be able to supply goods with one common plug at the end of the lead or on their wall warts.

It would be possible to install sockets of the new design only if desired.

We could fuse either the new design secondary sockets or the new plugs. However, given the desirability of supporting multi-voltage operation, the socket seems the better location.

Of course, this would only support up to some arbitrary power limit but it is obvious that the vast majority of devices are low-to-very-low power consumption.

[Mike]

No one wants or needs to change anything. If Europe desperately wants a standard plug then the answer is easy. Let them adopt ours. If they don't like it then they can f*ck off.

[TheOldFellow]

I think you'll find that most of these brands are trade marks of Electrium.

So probably all made in the same factory (in China, no doubt).

I use Crabtree from Screwfix, and have had very few problems. And I like the styling (so does SWMBO).

R.

[Tim S]

TheOldFellow coughed up some electrons that declared:

Well yes, Volex, Crabtree and Wylex are Electrium.

Which doesn't explain why people seem to think Volex is crap and Crabtree is good..?

Cheers

Tim