Whilst ES lampholders do seem to account for a number of electrocutions, BC lampholders don't seem to have caused a single one (in both cases, excluding faults). In practice, I suspect its too difficult to get a good enough connection between a finger and the pins, combined with less opportunity to do so in normal use. With ES lampholders, the main risk is gripping a bulb to insert/remove it, and being electrocuted by exposed metal of the lamp base. In most countries where it's used, it's not possible to guarantee the live connection is the tip, as live/neutral polarity isn't preserved into appliances. (In the UK, it is required that the tip is the live connection of an ES lampholder.)
There are a few places like that (some Scandanavian countries derive
230V from 3-phase delta with one grounded leg, so 1 in 3 230V supplies have no neutral, and some areas of France and probably elsewhere still use IT earthing systems). However, the vast majority do have a grounded neutral, and polarity is preserved as far as the back of the socket outlet. With the socket outlets for the most part having no defined polarity (French/Belgium) or being reversible (Schuko), that is where it's lost. But given these sockets are used on supplies with no neutral (however few), it must be assumed by all appliances that both sides are phase connections.
On Sun, 02 Nov 2008 11:07:41 +0000 someone who may be Rod wrote this:-
The issue is when the lamps are in place. When the lamp is in place in a BC lampholder it is not possible to touch any energised part. However, when the lamp is in place in an ES lampholder it may be possible to touch an energised part, particularly those with small fingers, or push a metal item such as a knitting needle onto an energised part.
but from what i remember, the shuko socket has full length wiper style contacts that give a much better connection to the plugs pins than the uk's end contacts,
the shuko socket can do that as it doesn't need insulating strips like uk ones do (with the exception of the 2 pin flat plugs on double insulated appliances) we need the insulation strips as out socket is a flat plate, the shuko one is recessed, so it's impossible to tough the pins and you insert a shuko socket like you can on a uk one.
the shuko socket and plugs are rated for 16 amps, uk 13 amps, to me that says something about the design of the uk ones... i know why, it's those little end contacts to stop electrocution if you insert an uninsulated pin plug whilst touching the pins, don't make contact with the live bit till the plug is practically all the way in.
i read so many stories of people buying things like welders from Germany, they work fine over there on the 16 amp supply, but put a 13 amp plug on em and they pop the fuse each time you strike an arc... meaning the expense of installing a separate 16 amp supply and bulky blue socket just for the welder.
yes you can plug the shuko plug in either way round, but in Europe the appliances are double pole switched, i.e. switch live and neutral, not like the uk with single pole switching, there is supposed to be no polarity on AC supplies, so why the need to insert the plug one way round only?
the earth strips on shuko sockets... whats wrong with them? there's 2 of them to match the 2 earth strips on the plug, you get a good earth connection which ever way you plug in.
I've never seen a non earthed shuko socket that could take an earthed plug.
they do have 2 types of plug in Germany, the round 2 pin with earth strip 16 amp plug for appliances needing earth and full power,
then you have the flat 2 pin plug (like a shaver plug) no earth on them as they are only fitted to 2 core wire connected to double insulated appliances... TV, videos' and the like.
you can plug one of them into an earthed shuko socket, but you cant plug an earthed plug into a non earthed socket (only seen extension leads with the flat non earthed sockets) all shuko sockets have a recess that matches the plug's type, unlike a uk flat plate socket,
The thing i liked about German extension leads... you could buy some with pin holes per socket, this is so you can plug in a single earthed plug, or 2 x flat non earthed plugs in a single socket, ideal for the hifi or tv/video/dvd/sat box extension.
the flat non earthed plugs are for lower current appliances, 8 amps max i'd guess, but could be lower,
afaik europe uses radial circuits, i certainly remember the breaker box in our house in Germany being massive (1985 time), had a breaker for almost every socket and light, tripping one would not plunge the whole house into darkness or shut everything off like it does over here. yes no fuses in the plugs, but hence the breakers for the sockets.
i also liked how if you reach the end of the cord.. say hoovering, and tugged it a bit, you just pull the plug out the socket, over her you bend the damn thing up a bit, straining the wire like hell,
I've also have a few times where I've gone to unplug a uk plug, and had the top come away from a failed screw thread, leaving exposed terminals, that's impossible to do with a shuko plug, the screw goes right through the plug and is at 90 degrees to the way you pull it out the socket, so will never come undone to expose live terminals whilst it is in the socket.
so it seems the only thing to complain about with the German system is the lack of polarity, for which as mentioned the only thing that affects is a table lamp, if you are stupid enough to unscrew the bulb while it's still plugged in, whilst touching something earthed with one hand and reaching right down and touching the screw thread of the bulb whilst unscrewing it.... the rcd just trips when you do that anyway,
Personally, if you really want a fixed Shuko (as opposed to the very good suggestions here of using a travel adaptor or shuko-strip) I would install it off the end of a switched fused connection unit, fused correctly for the application.
It'll be safe (as any shuko socket is), neat, switched and easy to de-install (replace FCU with 13A socket).
He might counter with that but he would not be able to cite a regulation that says so in those terms. There appear to be examples of mixed installations in UK that have been accepted as discussed in this thread:
where did you get that idea from? AC has a Live cable which kills and a neutral that does not, so yes it does mater which way round its plugged in, usually over here only the live is fused so if you plug in a piece of equipment the wrong way round yes it will work but under a fault condition the fuse could blow on the neutral and the current still could flow between Live and Earth
that's what i'll do, have it on a travel adaptor at the moment, but dont like it, sticks out a lot, looks ugly, and after a few days the 2 plugs seem to be hanging from the sockets... prolly me catching the wire slightly.
the sockets in the games room are all at chest of shoulder height, so the machines can be switched on and off easily and we dont leave one of them on by mistake as would be the case if we had to crawl under the desks/machines to get at a floor level socket (im prolly breaking regs having the 13 amp sockets where i do anyway)
just it would look a hell of a lot neater to have a proper wall mounted shuko socket or 2 next to the 13 amp sockets, as i plan to get another pinball machine sometime, and the best ones come from germany,
also just noticed the travel adaptor i have in use dosent earth the shuko socket, so i may as well have stuck a screwdriver in the earth hole of the
13 amp socket to open the shutters, and jammed the shuko's pins in the power holes.
I think the nearest to bad outcomes I have had occurred when the glass bulb separated from the metal base or when the bulb actually broke leaving spikes of filament support. I doubt there is much difference between ES and BC in this specific regard - though one may be more likely than the other to separate like that.
In fact, thinking about it, the best improvement might be to ensure double-pole switches are used. But I am probably missing something important... (Yes - I know that would play havoc with multi-way switching. :-) But would be feasible for table and standard lamps.)
we all gotta learn not to poke around in things we dont understand sometime done we, it's all very well making things brat proof, but surely it's better to teach the brats not to try inserting things into sockets/bulb holders,
i learnt not to put my fingers into a street lamp that had it's cover missing, wont be doing that again and it taught me to be a bit more respectfull of electricity....
think that's the word here, too many people fear electricity, give it a bit of respect and you'll get on fine,
The "Schuko" comes in many forms both earthed and not earthed. In the house we had in Germany it was wired with a mixture of both. The same plug fitted both.
Some are recessed but there are also flush mounting non-earthed variants which allow you to touch both pins when inserting them.
It says nothing other than you have forgotten the design voltage. Both plugs are essentially similar in current handling capacity. The Schuko is rated at 16A at 220V (3,520W) the BS1363 at 13A at 240V (3,120W). If anything the 13A plug/socket is more reliable at high currents. as the contact area is larger. The relatively high rating of the Schuko means it has to be a tight fit in the socket which makes it difficult for people with arthritic hands to plug them in properly or remove them. It is common to find Schuko plugs very loose in the sockets as they are not fully inserted.
You shouldn't believe everything you read.
Appliances are switched identically in the UK and the rest of the EU.
They are very common.
It usually does plunge everything into darkness as lighting circuits are rarely wired one to each circuit breaker but as in the UK. Power sockets are individually fused or done in groups.
It also creates far more cases where plugs get broken or damaged by furniture being pushed against them or people trip over the leads.
But it's very easy to use the cable to pull it out (and often necessary given the shape of some Schuko plugs) and pull one conductor off in the process leaving you with an exposed live wire.
I'll just add to that, if using a switched fused unit, make sure that it's a double pole switch, as the shuko is polarity-reversible (as pointed out by everyone else). That will avoid an edge case of you thinking you've shut it off, then fiddling inside your pinball machine and getting a nasty surprise.
eg:
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'd have unplugged the machine in this case, of course, but, well, you know...
The way I've written that is stupid. You are in control of the polarity up until the shuko socket so you can never get an unswitched phase to the machine even with a single pole switch.
Mind you, technically "neutral" is to be considered "live" (oridinary people's "live" is actually called "phase" or "line"), and a DP switch will offer protection against odd supply or wiring faults that involve the neutral floating up to 240V above earth.
Still reasonable advice to use a DP switch (or none at all), but for slightly different reasons to the way it appeared in the last post.
But all the recent ES lampholders I've seen are designed so that the threaded part of the cap doesn't make contact until the lamp is screwed almost fully home and the skirt extends just beyond the cap making it quite difficult to touch a live cap. Illustrated fitting instructions (e.g. Ikea) tend to be a bit vague but often seem to imply that live should be connected to the outer contact and neutral to the central pin.
With this arrangement the live contact in an empty lampholder is less easy to touch with your fingers than the contacts of a BC lampholder.
There are parts of Europe where it's been standard; Holland IIRC, where protection against electric shock by non-conducting location means no earths are permitted on outlets in such areas.
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