On Thursday 05 September 2013 08:51 MM wrote in uk.d-i-y:
I can answer for JG Speedfit specifically:
Yes - I have hot water upto 5 bar too.
IME, very. However I do wonder what will happen in 10-20 years with the O- ring.
Pushed ontop clean (not necessarily bright) copper or onto the plastic pipe after inserting a special insert for plastic. Then the locking nut is done up by hand.
You can get push fit -> 1/2 or 3/4 tap connectors, or flexi tails with push fit on one end or just use a short piece of copper and a regular tap connector.
Yes because it is faster.
For proper plumbing I use copper and solder or compression as I still believe it is more proven. However for temporary stuff (as in a few years) I have used lots of JG Speedfit.
Have a look at Cuprofit - brass push fit fittings - might be more to your taste.
Is you HW also "high" pressure. The text description states the tap is not suitable for gravity systems, this is inconsistent with the bullet list...
Max pressure is also 5 bar, IIRC the minimum mains pressure is around
4 bar, some mains pressures are considerably higher. Worth checking.
Yes.
Like all connections as reliable as the quality and care taken in assembly. Pipe ends *have* to be square, clean cut and free of swarf particulary on the outer edge.
The fittings just push onto prepared plain pipe. Plastic pipe requires an insert to rienforce it, copper pipe doesn't need an insert.
TBH that description is so vauge I'm not sure what you are getting. It mentions "M10 inlet size", which I expect to be the thread for the ends of the tails to screw into. Presumably those tails have prefitted pushfit connectors at the other end for connection to the supply pipework.
I'd want to open the box and see what is there before commiting to purchase.
See above the tails will have M10 threaded ends to screw into the base of the tap. To use the push fit connectors the existing tap connectors(?) will have to be removed and the pipe ends cut back to solder/paint free pipe.
Some do and plastic pipe. Personally I don't like it, the fittings are large and knobbly, plastic pipe has a smaller bore than the same nominal size copper and then you shove an insert into it at each joint making the bore even smaller. Probably not a problem with a fully mains pressure system but not so good in a gravity low pressure one.
I used push fit on air lines for decades without any problems, despite much higher pressures and a fluid that is far more likely to leak. However, as we know from one of this group's occasional contributors, you can make a mess of the plumbing fittings by cutting the pipe with a hacksaw, rather than using the correct pipe cutter.
In the meantime I've discovered John Guest Speedfit monobloc connection hoses, i.e. screw-end for screwing into tap and push-fit (Speedfit) for connecting to the existing copper pipework.
So, replacing the sink and tap should be dead easy.
My plan:
Turn off water supplies (hot and cold).
Drain out residual water from pipes.
Saw through existing tap copper pipe tails (i.e. DON'T saw through
15mm copper feed pipes).
Remove old sink and tap as single unit.
Fit new tap to new sink.
Fit flexible hoses to tap.
Fit sink.
Use 15mm pipe cutter to cut through 15mm copper feed pipes.
Lightly polish (fine wire wool) the ends of the copper feed pipes to remove any crud.
Yes, I saw that. But there are plenty of alternative, similar monobloc taps that ARE suitable for gravity systems.
I just wondered whether push-fit needed any special kind of pipe, but it appears that it doesn't. I've since found John Guest Speedfit flexible hoses that screw into the tab, which should make the job even easier.
If I buy from Screwfix, that is likely a possibility, since there is a new branch near me.
No problem. I'd use my pipe cutter for that. The copper feed pipes are dirty (after 10 years under the sink), but unpainted and free of solder, so burnishing the ends with fine wire wool after cutting the pipes to a suitable length should be fine.
Just had a leak from a plastic fitting that is probably of that vintage. We've been here 14 years, the previous owners did or had done basically no work, they were here 10 years. The owners before did the a lot of refurbishment/conversion about 10 years before that...
This joint that leaked was of the plastic screw up compression similar to those you find these days for blue HDPE. The collect and sealing O ring on the plastic pipe side where were "as new", same for the rather more complex copper side(*). I just wiped them clean, adjusted the pipework to give clean and undistorted pipe ends and reused.
The plastic pipe side failed as it had been under strain from the pipework and the black thick walled plastic pipe had become deformed/spilt but not right through.
Locking nut? The stuff I've used just has a looseish collet, that wobbles about in a no confidence inducing sort of way until the system is pressurised. Some systems have a clip that can be inserted between the collect flange and fitting to prevent "accidental disengagement".
(*) Collet lined with grey gritty stuff that I though was some strange deposit. End of collet fitted into a complex soft sealing bung/washer. But all in "as new" condition. This is of course plastics and soft nitrile(?) seals made 30 odd years ago what modern stuff is like...
The copper needs to smooth and clean doesn't have to be bright. What you don't want is a sharp leading edge or any swarf. A pipe cutter taken slowly should produce a clean gently rounded outer edge but there may be a ring or arc of fine swarf on the inner edge.
Like Tim, I tend to use copper + solder/compression for permanent stuff, but will just speedfit for temporary fittings (like temporarily capping pipes when modifying a system). I wouldn't be too bothered about using push fit to connect a tap like that because the connection would be accessible (under sink cupboard), so easy to spot if it started dripping, and easy to replace.
Copper pipe, and plastic with an insert are both fine.
The only time I've ever had a problem with push-fit was when I fitted a brass drain-c*ck into a copper push-fit elbow. It pushed out under pressure. It may have been that the brass tail wasn't quite long enough to go all the way into the grab-ring - but I suspect that the brass was too hard for the grab-ring to grip properly.
I have just chucked some PB pipe and fittings from a 30 year old install and they were fine. They only went because I can't get the inserts to fit so put in some PEX pipe instead. It's CH and hot/cold water supply.
The Speedfit that I used about 6 - 7 years ago to replumb the house was tightened just by the pressure or, to avoid the small axial movement, by pulling the collet out with the pipe fully into the fitting. Has the system changed? (I'm reluctant to mess about trying to turn a collet as the evening's getting on and the pressure can get to 5 Bar here).
Pushfit end-stops are also excellent for temporary use whilst doing plumbing, and I have a handful of 15mm and 22mm ones in my plumbing toolbox for this purpose.
It is important to make sure there's no strain on fittings - pipe should be clamped to prevent it pulling out or pulling sideways.
Also, don't use on chromed pipe - the chrome is too hard for the grab ring to bite into.
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