protecting MDF screw holes from stripping

[fred]

18mm chipboard or mdf (or even 15mm if you are shopping at the bottom of th e market).

as fat screws or other chipboard fixings. I've toughened chipboard furnitur e up quite well with extra fixings.

as used man made board somewhere in it. There is absolutely nothing wrong w ith it when used correctly.

ly nothing wrong with it. Its built down to price, doesn't last well, can't cope with water, can't cope with anything heavier than bedding, etc.

Its the furniture that is built down to a price. Nothing to do with the mat erial used.

ormal household life.

So tell us how it was ill-equipped to deal with a decade on normal use. Did the MDF itself disintegrate or was it a question of incorrect joints that caused the problem or bad design. I'm afraid you are confusing the furnitur e with the material used in its construction.

Millions of homes have kitchen cupboards made from chipboard or mdf. If it was as bad as the more ignorant amongst us claim people would have stopped using it years ago.

And no, it is not used only in cheaper kitchens.

And yes if improperly used it can fail but that would be the same with any material.

Apart from chairs very little solid wood furniture is sold. It would be hid eously expensive and over kill for normal domestic use . Modern solid wood kitchens have man made board carcases. Doors may have solid wood stiles an d rails but the infill panel is unlikely to be natural wood. Man made board s are vastly superior in these circumstance as they are stable, don't shrin k or contract nor split all of which natural wood may do.

As a substrate for veneering it is unbeatable.

oddy or abused,

much better, is far more durable, and if damaged far more repairable. I see little sense paying a bit less for something that will look crap in 10 or

20 years.

Nonsense. In what way would real wood furniture look better ? How it looks is down to the designer and he quality of manufacture not the material. I w ould dispute it is more durable. Put a hot plate on a melamine faced table and its no problem. Do the same with natural wood with a varnish finish and you have a repair job on your hands Melamine faced board will take lots of knocks and bangs which would leave natural wood bruised or chipped. We had a high class kitchen with a formica finish over chipboard. When we sold th e house after 17 years and 5 kids it still looked like new. Sister in law g ot a 'real wood' kitchen and it is not wearing well, apart from the nonsens e of having to treat the 'butcher block' work surfaces twice a years as rec ommended by the manufacturer. (And incidentally this 'butcher block' is not hing of the sort. Its strip lamination. Gluing a whole lot of offcuts toget her. Load of bollix. Seen any commercial kitchen with this type of work sur face? No? Didn't think so.)

[stuart noble]

Yep, chipboard has improved the quality of life for millions of people for whom a fitted kitchen was out of the question

[Chris Holford]

In article , Harry Bloomfield writes

[Ian Jackson]

In message , Chris Holford writes

Isn't that more-or-less standard practice for screwing any screw into any already-formed thread?

[meow2222]

ote:

rs has used man made board somewhere in it. There is absolutely nothing wro ng with it when used correctly.

absolutely nothing wrong with it. Its built down to price, doesn't last wel l, can't cope with water, can't cope with anything heavier than bedding, et c.

material used.

e of normal household life.

Did the MDF itself disintegrate or was it a question of incorrect joints t hat caused the problem or bad design. I'm afraid you are confusing the furn iture with the material used in its construction.

You're hardly in any position to decide such things without having heard wh at the problems were. The main problem was inability to withstand the occas ional drip from mugs. This resulted in finish breakup, expansion of mdf, an d consequent deterioration. It was factory spray painted, but still didnt c ope.

t was as bad as the more ignorant amongst us claim people would have stoppe d using it years ago.

Ah. Maybe the solid wood furniture I have doesnt exist then, nor the many s hops that sell it.

Of course it costs more to buy, but it lasts. Buy cheap, buy twice.

solid wood stiles and rails but the infill panel is unlikely to be natural wood. Man made boards are vastly superior in these circumstance as they are stable, don't shrink or contract nor split all of which natural wood may d o.

I'm all for veneered chip for kitchen worktops. Wood is a poor 2nd for this . But for elsewhere in the house, wood rules.

n shoddy or abused,

e looks much better, is far more durable, and if damaged far more repairabl e. I see little sense paying a bit less for something that will look crap i n 10 or 20 years.

oks is down to the designer and he quality of manufacture not the material.

Melamine loves to come apart at the seams in time, whereupon its horribly u gly and rarely worth fixing. Wood looks ok when worn, veneered chip wears t erribly. Melamine also discolours badly in time - wood also colours but it looks good.

How many wood & how many chipboard furniture pieces are still around from t he 1960s & 70s? There's a big difference in number because wood remains gra ceful, veneer looks awful after a while.

with natural wood with a varnish finish and you have a repair job on your hands

hence melamine's standard in kitchens.

natural wood bruised or chipped.

and vice versa, the edges/corners are much weaker than real wood. That's wh ere damage tends to happen.

sold the house after 17 years and 5 kids it still looked like new. Sister in law got a 'real wood' kitchen and it is not wearing well, apart from the nonsense of having to treat the 'butcher block' work surfaces twice a year s as recommended by the manufacturer. (And incidentally this 'butcher block ' is nothing of the sort. Its strip lamination. Gluing a whole lot of offcu ts together. Load of bollix. Seen any commercial kitchen with this type of work surface? No? Didn't think so.)

Crappy idea. Formica is a boon in the kitchen, but elsewhere no thank you.

NT

[fred]

ears has used man made board somewhere in it. There is absolutely nothing w rong with it when used correctly.

s absolutely nothing wrong with it. Its built down to price, doesn't last w ell, can't cope with water, can't cope with anything heavier than bedding, etc.

he material used.

ade of normal household life.

e. Did the MDF itself disintegrate or was it a question of incorrect joints that caused the problem or bad design. I'm afraid you are confusing the fu rniture with the material used in its construction.

what the problems were. The main problem was inability to withstand the occ asional drip from mugs. This resulted in finish breakup, expansion of mdf, and consequent deterioration. It was factory spray painted, but still didnt cope.

In other word I'm right It was the incorrect use of mdf (Spray painted !! S treuth) that led to its downfall. Spray painted mdf was not suitable for th e treatment you were giving it any more than a french polish would have bee n

it was as bad as the more ignorant amongst us claim people would have stop ped using it years ago.

any material.

shops that sell it.

I didn't say it didn't exist. And that's not what this discussion is about. We are discussing your off hand dismal of chipboard and mdf as material su itable for furniture, which really says more about your knowledge.

Pleas don't trot out these age old aphorisms. Its not necessarily cheaper n or longer lasting. There are mountains of cheap Taiwainese solid wood furni ture floating about and very little of it of a decent quality

solid wood stiles and rails but the infill panel is unlikely to be natura l wood. Man made boards are vastly superior in these circumstance as they a re stable, don't shrink or contract nor split all of which natural wood may do.

is. But for elsewhere in the house, wood rules.

Rubbish. In the bathroom ? The utility room ? The garage ? Unless you are r ich as Croesus and can afford solid teak furniture for any of these tough e nvironments you are much better off with man made boards.

een shoddy or abused,

ure looks much better, is far more durable, and if damaged far more repaira ble. I see little sense paying a bit less for something that will look crap in 10 or 20 years.

looks is down to the designer and he quality of manufacture not the materia l.

ugly and rarely worth fixing. Wood looks ok when worn, veneered chip wears terribly. Melamine also discolours badly in time - wood also colours but i t looks good.

Melamine is a film veneer applied to a suitable substrate. Like most things in life there are many variations of it just as there are many variations in the quality of chipboard, mdf and plywood and many manufacturers of mela mine faced board, again of varying standards. Its nonsense to extrapolate from one example and then apply this to all oth ers.

the 1960s & 70s? There's a big difference in number because wood remains g raceful, veneer looks awful after a while.

Simply because there was not a lot of it around in the 60's When it first b ecame popular it was seized on by manufacturers of cheap furniture which wa s made down to a price. It is from this era that it got its ill-earned repu tation which the ill-educated regularly trot out.

me with natural wood with a varnish finish and you have a repair job on you r hands

ve natural wood bruised or chipped.

where damage tends to happen.

we sold the house after 17 years and 5 kids it still looked like new. Siste r in law got a 'real wood' kitchen and it is not wearing well, apart from t he nonsense of having to treat the 'butcher block' work surfaces twice a ye ars as recommended by the manufacturer. (And incidentally this 'butcher blo ck' is nothing of the sort. Its strip lamination. Gluing a whole lot of off cuts together. Load of bollix. Seen any commercial kitchen with this type o f work surface? No? Didn't think so.)

Man made boards are excellent products when used correctly. Their use is wi de spread and ubiquitous. Its nonsense to knock them on the basis of old wi ves tales and urban apochrypha. To do so merely indicates a lack of knowled ge or a closed mind or both.

[meow2222]

big snip

wide spread and ubiquitous. Its nonsense to knock them on the basis of old wives tales and urban apochrypha. To do so merely indicates a lack of knowl edge or a closed mind or both.

Lets re-establish the basics. What I'm criticising is melamine veneered chi pboard furniture outside of the kitchen, and the basis for this criticism i s repeated experiences of how non-durable it is. I've long lost count of ho w much I've scrapped due to its inability to cope with life.

NT