Plumbing nightmare

[Dave Baker]

My 24 year old country house has its own well water supply. I moved in 4 years ago. Last week a soldered joint in the loft failed and water flooded the loft and brought part of the ceiling down. Looking under the sump beneath the ground floor another soldered joint was spraying out. I tested the broken joint in the loft and the pipe has corroded to buggery. Nothing left of it. I'm now thinking the well water is so acidic it's killed all the copper pipe and I'll have to replumb the entire house in plastic pipe. However both failures were at soldered joints. How to tell if the entire system is f***ed or just the soldered joints?

[Adrian]

pH test?

If it's that acidic, can't see it doing you much good.

[Andy Burns]

Flux left on soldered joints?

[Peter Parry]

You might find

useful.

It might be worth having the water supply tested if this has not been done. See

Local authority environmental health may be able to help - otherwise a list of private laboratories is at

[The Natural Philosopher]

Beware. At leasts one person had their water supply tested as=n was told that their property was condemned because it dint meet H & S

[Dave Baker]

I finally found the water test results from when I bought the house. Ph was 7.0 so not acidic. Looks liked bad soldering then.

[newshound]

If it was sufficiently acidic to be dissolving copper, I think I would expect you to see other signs of it, for example green deposits at small leak sites or in limescale.

[Syd Rumpo]

Could it have frozen, or can the pipes move/vibrate?

Cheers

[Dave Plowman (News)]

If there's one thing soldered joints don't like it's getting frozen with water in the pipes. They 'pop' And once they have moved a little, you've lost that perfect seal and of course strength. It's happened to me once in the outside loo here in London. I'd guess you'd have to take a great deal more care in the NE of Scotland. If you suspect is was acidity, I'd be inclined to look inside a bit of copper tube not beside a joint. Some plumber's fluxes are very aggressive and any excess must be wiped off after making the joint. The inside should flush away, as they are water solvent.

[T i m]

Or compression joints for that matter.

When I was rebuilding this place I had a standpipe in the kitchen with a compression / bib tap.

I came round one day to carry on working and found the tap on the floor and a rod of ice sticking out of the remaining pipework!

'Luckily' it was still frozen when I found it or the kitchen floor (dug out at the time) would have been an ice rink. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Yes - but with a soldered joint, a partial freeze up can break the solder without the whole lot coming apart. Perhaps a good safety feature, as it's easier to fix than a burst pipe. I've a feeling a compression fitting is slightly more tollerant. Although nothing will probably survive a full freeze.

The original plumbing in my outside loo was lead. Didn't look like it had ever been repaired. It was the new copper I'd put in for a wash basin that popped - and only a few years afterwards. Given the age of the house, I doubt it was the hardest winter ever. ;-)

[Capitol]

You didn't let DIMM help did you?

[Fredxxx]

I have seen burst pipes and popped compression fittings but I have never seen an end feed or yorkshire fitting pop.

[ARW]

Then get it tested without telling them where it was from.

[stvlcnc43]

AIUI, limescale is the result of alkaline water, and is dissolved by acid.

[Dave Baker]

Here are pics of the leaking T joint I hacksawed out of the loft. The top 22mm pipe had corroded to nothing and just fell out of the joint. It was tolerably thick on one side of the pipe but wafer thin on the other. Is this bad soldering, too much flux or water corrosion? I'm colourblind so whether this is green corrosion is beyond me but hopefully someone can tell from the pics. Sorry they aren't better quality.

[Tim+]

That's some serious corrosion! Oddly, it doesn't look like it's ever been soldered though. I wonder if chronic leakage has accelerated the corrosion?

Tim

[RayL12]

Also, earlier signs of acidic water(if drinking water) would be skin problems and ill health.

[Peter Parry]

Or indeed it has never been soldered. It wouldn't be the first time a pipe and fittings have been assembled and the plumber has been distracted and forgotten to complete the job by heating them. The flux, especially the older non water soluble acid ones, can seal the fitting moderately well.

[RayL12]

A similar thing; while moving a large fridge freezer in a training centre, which is a large fabricated metal warehouse structure, I caught the copper 90 degree bend(presoldered) of the hot water system. The immersion and header was 15ft above.

It was the slightest of movements, not aggressive at all and, it brought the bend off. After turning the valve off, I inspected the bend and noticed there was no sign of solder on the pipe. I pulled on the bend and it slid off the other section just as easy.

I was surprised as there was no leak over the 4 years of heavy use by trainees and staff. This is an open area and polished floor. Any water drips would have showed. As it was it was just this one bend but having a 15ft header, was surprised it stayed secure.