Plumbers perks?

[David J]

I had a 26 gallon hot water copper cylinder replaced recently by a local plumber. While here was at it I also got him to replace the CH pump and realign the adjacent pipework. I supplied both the pump and the tank after asking him for his advice during his 'estimate' visit.

All in all a satisfactory job was done apart from a minor niggle - he helped himself to my old tank, which I had not realised until after he was paid and gone. As it happens I had already been quoted £17 for it at a local scrapyard - provided that I removed the foam insulation first.

So what is the expected arrangement 'in the trade' for copper scrap? Should the plumber assume that it is all his, and not discuss it with the customer before making off with it?

DJ

[Toby]

I would class that as theft and ask him to please return it, seen as it has not been agreed he could have it!

Cheekey bugger!

[martin_pentreath]

Agreed - whatever the expected arrangement in the trade might be, the cylinder clearly belongs to you, and he needs your permission to take it away. He would probably softsoap you about helpfully removing the rubbish, and some customers might be happy to foresake their seventeen quid to avoid a trip to the scrapyard, but he must give you the option!

[Andrew May]

I don't know about the others responding to this but I would expect any trades person to remove rubbish (including any old items that they have removed) when they have finished the job unless specifically requested.

Andrew

[Dave Plowman (News)]

I'd say if he tidied up fully afterwards he's in the right. If not it's theft.

[Peter Andrews]

Perhaps he should have asked - but I've tried removing the foam from those tanks and £17 is nowhere near enough return on my time!

Peter

[Baz]

Well done the Plummer for clearing up. I would think the majority of people getting a Plummer in WOULD want it taken away. All that mess and time cleaning it and taking it to the scrapyard, is that worth 17 quid? You should have said.

Baz

[Phil L]

Unless you stipulated that you wanted it, it's his, along with all the other rubbish he produced that day. You could attempt to get it back, but they have a stock answer of 'it was budgeted for in the quote', IE; it was part of the price of the job, so if you want it back, you owe him about seventeen quid.

[Mike]

You will not owe him anything if the foam is still on ;-)

Mike P

[NT]

I'd expect you could get more than that for it selling it privately, with the foam on.

NT

[jon]

I'd expect you could get more than that for it selling it privately, with the foam on.

Im a plumber and always take the cylinder and all the rubbish on completion and have never had a problem. Anyone want to buy one I have 4 in the shed right now ;-)

NT

[John Rumm]

I expect that legally the tank is yours, however the majority of customers would expect the plumber to clear up afterwards and take any rubbish away - including the tank. The plumber probably factors the scap value into the price of the job to an extent anyway.

It does not seem worth getting worked up about. I am sure had you have asked to keep the old cylinder, he would have left it.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Some 40 years ago my brother bought this lovely old fisherman's cottage in Portlethen - a few miles south of Aberdeen. The hot water system consisted of a back boiler behind an open coal fire - and and uninsulated copper cylinder. Both thick copper. He had central heating put in and both were removed. And taken away. But not any of the other rubbish. He wasn't so much worried about the scrap value - but his new wife had wanted to make a planter out of the old cylinder.

[Dave Liquorice]

Technically the waste is the householders but most will want the waste taking away. I wonder if the plumber has a Waste Transport Licence and permit to use a trade waste site somewhere? And will offer the householder the relevant certification of disposal?

Oh, there is goes just behind that cloud. Listen you can still hear it, ...

[Clot]

Not required as I understand the legislation. If, however, he asked another to remove it, then that organisation has to be registered as either a waste broker or commercial transporter of waste.

and permit to use a trade waste site somewhere? And will

As above.

Is its tail that pink? May be it was just the sunset this evening as looked up to the sky.

[YAPH]

What agreement did you reach with him about either keeping or taking away the cylinder? If you specifically asked him to leave the cylinder and he didn't then he's well out of order.

What about the pump and other rubbish: did he take that away too? If he took the cylinder and left other stuff that was a bit cheeky.

If he took *all* the waste from the job and you hadn't asked him not to then your only real complaint is that he didn't read your mind. Some tradespeople do take their waste away, some don't. I do, because I think that's what my customers expect, but despite the advice on one of the gov't websites to the contrary it seems I may need to buy a waste transfer licence at something like £150 for 3 years to do so legally. Take that, and the time taken to transport bulky items like hot water cylinders to the scrap merchants, away from what I get for scrap metal and I'm *far* better off plumbing than collecting and selling scrap.

[YAPH]

That's what I thought too, until yesterday when I had my inspection from NAPIT. The inspector seemed to think otherwise. Not that it was his area of expertise, but makes me want to check.

[RobertL]

They key word here is "replaced". I think it's implied that he should supply and fit a new one and remove the old one.

Robert

[Dave Liquorice]

asked

Ah but the "waste" is the householders property and responsibilty, the fact they have employed someone who has generated said waste is not relevant. Then you add into the mix that the trades person has generated waste in the pursuance of trade, ergo "trade waste".So they then need a Waste Transfer Licence to take it away and dispose of at a registered trade waste site and, in theory, should get documentary evidence to that effect.

I'm not expert either but that is my understanding, if you transport "waste" in the course of your "work" you need a Waste Transport Licence.

If you come across a dyed in the wool council jobsworth that will apply to the wrapper your sandwich was in that you had whilst "working" and left in your car to put in the domestic waste when you got home. You are liable for not haveing the Waste Transfer Licence and not disposing of the "trade waste" at a proper facilty.

By all means look at the legislation but beware this is simplified legislation from a few years back so uses the inverse definition of the word "simplified".

[David J]

Further clarification....

We made no prior agreement about the scrap, but he asked what I had paid for the new cylinder, pump, immersion heater and Fernox that I supplied.

I was in the house during the 2 half days he was on the job, giving a hand and providing tea, so there was plenty of opportunity for him to discus the disposals. I even carried the new cylinder upstairs for him when he was ready for it. As the old one was a bit weighty with limescale he took it down and put it in the garage on day 1.

After he left on day 2, I noted that the cylinder and all the copper pipe off-cuts were gone. The old immersion was in my rubbish bin, and the old pump was left in the garage. So he was quite selective with his 'tidying up'.

Regarding the chore of removing the cylinder insulation - I'm retired, so time is not the issue. However £17 is a few beers to me.

I'll know better in future! The only reason that I didn't know the drill was that in the past I would have done this simple job myself.

My take on this is that he probably waits until he has half a dozen tanks, and then makes a trip to the scrapyard for £100.

DJ