it come with instructions? If not, what do you do?
After you have finished plumbing, do you allow the pipe to thaw naturally, or do you apply heat to speed it along?
Is it effective on hot water pipes? I have an elderly relative who wants new taps in the kitchen. The problem is that there is no way to isolate the hot water and I don't fancy climbing into an unlit, unboarded loft to block the tank outlet.
Is it effective on CH pipes? Doesn't fernox do an inhibitor with antifreeze in; would it work with that?
I have used pipe freezers several times on CH systems and they work fine. Useful if you need to change the radiator stop valves.
Don't do what I did once which was to forget to turn off the CH timer, the CH came on while I was fitting a new radiator. Fortunately I had nearly finished and was able to quickly tighten the joints.
With regard to your tap fitting, are you sure there is no stopcock by the HW tank in the airing cupboard?
If not why don't you turn off the mains water and drain down the HW, this would be the safest way.
> Does it come with instructions? If not, what do you do?
Not answering the questions, as I have never used a freezing kit myself, but you could always shut off the cold main and then drain the cold tank, that would stop the hot water flow.
Then you don't need to worry about it thawing at the wrong time.
So simple, why didn't I think of that? OTOH it would mean pouring a whole hot tank away, which does seem wasteful. I haven't looked in the airing cupboard yet, so I hope I might find a gate valve or something in there. I have one in ours; are they fitted routinely,. if so, that is promising but it does mean I won't get to buy a freezing kit!
BTW these kits: what do you reuse and what has to be replaced? Is the can single use or can you use it to do more than one pipe before it runs out?
Well, you don't need to drain the hot tank, just drain the cold, the hot is fed from the cold, at the bottom of the tank, and the take off is from the top (heat rises!) so once the cold water tank is empty, the hot tank will just sit there full - you will obviuslly need to drain the pipe between the tank and your work, but as soon as that is empty, then the hot water will just sit in the cylider.
I expect if the cylinder is hot, and you then turn off the boiler, this will mean the water won't expand any more, so you shouldnt get any dribbling.
You may find a gate valve, usually between the cold tanks and the hot cylinder, but you may not be able to turn it if it hasn't been used in a long time, and even if it does "work" it may not actually shut the water off, as they are crap!
If it were me, I would install a full bore lever valve like this if I were draining stuff down, for the future...
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one of these
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where you are working under the sink, install some of these if you can
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new taps may come with flexable tails, if so, they will probably screw directly onto the valve.
And if you are doing all of this, make sure the mains water shut-off is elderly relative friendly too - installing a lever valve is a hell of a lot easer to use than a traditional stop c*ck
One of these is even easier (although I have not used one myself yet, I have had good feedback from someone who has one)
That's true but how would you do this without making a mess? The only way I can think of is by bailing out the tank with buckets or siphoning it but that requires getting to the tank in the loft. The problem is that no-one has been in the loft for years, there's no lights up there and no boarding, so it's an expedition I would like to avoid if possible! I'm still hoping there will be a valve in the airing cupboard ;)
than clearing a path to the stop c*ck and frantically turning it!
I've used them a few time, they do exactly what they say on the tin.
All mine had instructions, but basically you have a piece of pipe insulation & a few cable ties to hold it on the pipe. The aerosol if squirted under the insulation.
Just leave it, takes 20 mins or so.
If the pipe is cold it should be OK.
No idea.
You could always try the John Rumm 'work fast & get a little wet' method. I've done that a few times as well. I'll let him describe the details :-)
You can maybe get away with more than one pipe, but not to be relied upon unless it is designed for more than one pipe. Basically you throw the whole lot away and get a new kit - unless it is a commercial kit which is refillable/expensive. You can also buy/hire electric freezers.
Using one takes some confidence in both the kit and your ability to get the job done before the ice plug melts. They also only work where there is no flow at all.
- Turn all the other taps on, on the loop to reduce the leakage, have an isolation valve (plus spanners) ready to hand and turned off, plenty of towels to soak up the mess - cut the pipe fast and slip the valve on. Simples...
Pretty much that. I have the iso valve clamped in mole grips, upstream olive & nut a loose fit, downstream nut & olive removed (so I don't put in on the wrong way), spanner already adjusted to fit. Remove old paint from pipe with nitromoors, clean pipe with wire wool.
Hose from wet vac held by helper or cable ties is a benefit :-)
I was surprised just how long the pipe did remain frozen - MDH says 20 minutes and that is a minimum I reckon, more like 30 I remember, and that's plenty of time to do almost any task on pipework. The instructions were pretty clear.
A young guy I worked beside a few years back described in wonderful graphic detail, changing an electric shower without being able to find a stopcock - he stripped off and put his swimming trunks on ! It was rather a cold exercise.
Thanks. I was so focused on it being the hot water tap from the hot water tank, I completely forgot that the bath cold tap came from the tank (hopefully). Thanks again.
If you're doing both taps, then run the hot after draining the cold tap - if the hot tap is below the top of the HW cylinder, there might be more to drain, after the cold tap has gone dry.
But I agree, draining cold first is *potentially* less wasteful.
It stands to reason that if all you're doing is changing the taps, or moving then to a position of similar height, then once the old taps have run dry, removing them should produce very little water - a few thick towells around or underneath should cope with any residual. It certainly shouldn't be gushing out. Assuming the stopcock turns off fully! Worth seeing if you have a key for the road c*ck handy just in case of issues with the house c*ck. Hopefully at least one of them should work properly.
Great time to stick some ballvalves in if desired, to make future tap washer maintenance easier :)
On an aside, I was thinking of using the pipe freezer once - until I saw the cost in B&Q - one can at some hideous price to do one pipe for one session.
That made me go and seek out all the valves and check them before I started. As it happened, the right valves worked so I didn't need to freeze stuff.
As I rebuild the system, I'm going to make sure that I include decent quality ball valves at strategic points and turn them once a year.
A plumber doing this would possibly have a "proper" freezing kit which is more like a mini fridge compressor with a clamp on cooling doobrey which makes the running cost smaller (ie can be used again and again).
The canned stuff is probably useful if there is no other way, but it's not cheap enough to make it a no brainer IMHO.
assuming 1) you will freeze the pipes under the kitchen sink and
2) the house hot water cylinder is "normal" i.e. upstairs
I don;t thnk you'll have a prob freezing the "hot" pipe as the water in it will most likely be cold (or cool) when you come to freeze it, after it's frozen it won't thaw any faster just because the distant end of the pipe is connected to a cylinder full of hot water.....
radical thought - tell rellies to turn hot water immersion/boiler off last thing day before you go - they can use kettle and wait for new taps to be fixed - and no wasted hot water!
When I've done this before I found it easier to use a valve that was turned on as there wasn't the pressure of water making it harder to push the fitting on.
Put a short bit of copper pipe in the other side and a hose that runs into the sink or outside.
Surprisingly little mess! Of course, you need to make sure they are dismountable pushfits (or I guess just then join onto the short bit of copper...)
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