Ping TNP re gridwatch

[Tim Streater]

There was an insert in todays Le Temps talking about 'renewables', and one article appeared to claim that we have some 7.4GW of installed wind now. Written by one Tim Probert (who he? - Ed) I quote:

"Figures do not lie: in addition to 5010Mw of onshore wind the UK has installed 2362Mw of offshore wind."

I observe that you've rejigged the wind dial on gridwatch. Any reason it shouldn't have 7.5Gw as its upper limit (other than that it will highlight even more that the figures do, in fact, lie).

Are you sure that BM Reports is including all known wind sources?

[The Other Mike]

Generation of all types that is embedded in the distribution network (132kV and below) may not be fitted with operational metering that provides a regular feed of its output to Elexon and National Grid. Hence there always will be a discrepancy between the installed renewable base (wind, hydro and solar) and that which is then reported via

In the case of this embedded generation, not fitted with operational metering, then their meters will get read at a regular interval and a payment made at a contracted rate between the operator and the utility taking supply, in a similar manner to FIT payments made to solar panel parasites.

7 GW of wind sadly sounds somewhere about right, if only it were an additional 7GW of nuclear capacity

[Tim Streater]

No, the klod definitely said MW. On the opposite page in another article (on the state of the Grid) there's an additive bar chart showing "Electricity generated by fuel type". This shows renewables (all) having generated something like 7.8TWh in Q2 2012. Nuclear generated 18.3TWh in the same period.

[Owain]

Is that MW continuous supply or total MWh per annum?

Owain

[The Natural Philosopher]

None really except I don't see the point of increasing it to show

(a) un-metered wind which may or may not be there and for which no independent data exists. I,e, one is relying on the small scale generator to accurately report what he is generating and its perfectly possible to take grid electricity bought at lower prices and feed it back into the meters to generate extra ROCS and so on.

(b) more power than the (metered) wind actually ever generates.

I know for a fact its not. Any more than harry's solar panels are shown. Embedded systems just reflect themselves as 'lower demand' but in terms of wind what they really produce is a guess. We do know what they

*claim* to produce and charge as ROCS because the wind energy association tells us. Oddly wind farms in Ireland seem to generate MUCH more than their mainland counterparts. Ho hum. :-)

[The Natural Philosopher]

Neither. Its nameplate capacity.

Running at about 23% capacity factor historically.

For the big metered farms. The average wind output is a shade over 1GW on the big metered stuff.

Less for the tiddlers although its remarkable how SOME farms seem to get much higher factors. How, is open to question...*

• neigbhours farm takes feed from grid and 'exports' it to chum and it shows up as ROC generating 'wind power' on his meter..since there is no real time monitoring no one can tell its happening on quiet windless nights..?

[Andrew Gabriel]

In some countries, this turned into a big fraud. (Spain and/or Italy springs to mind, but I might have misremembered.) It went unnoticed for a long time that a large proportion of the systems were managing to achieve full output from their solar panels 24x7x365.

[Steve Firth]

In Italy sales of diesel generators paralleled sales of PV panels. Farmers ran the generators at night and on cloudy days because the FIT prices made it economical to do so, especially if the generator ran on veg oil.

PV installations are everywhere, some covering acres of land.