Petrol or Diesel car?

[Dave]

Said weedie.

You old enough to remember that program? If not, you don't have any experience.

Dave

[Dave]

Does anyone remember Top Gear, where the contest was to drive from some where in France to Blackpool to switch on the lights?

Clarkson thought his car would run out of fuel quite near his home and hammered it at the start, but was surprised to get to Blackpool on one tank of fuel.

Prius, wasn't he the God of erection, or an over inflated prick? Oh no, that was Prapius. close by the way.

Dave

[Clot]

Many thanks for that, it made me chuckle out aloud.

Weed has an inability to distinguish Bill from Ben.An earlier post that gave a website something like consumeraffairs.com horrified me. I'm with all the folk that commented on that site about the danger of using a car that deliberately shuts down when faced with ice, leaves or snow. It should not be allowed out of the factory without a way to cut out this auto control that exposes folk to danger. If Weed wishes to kill himself, fine, if others are put at risk, then it should not be allowed on the road. Until I'd read that site, I was in favour of the Prius as a step forward to encourage us to be more mindful though I had never doubted that it would be more expensive to run or more damaging in terms of overall CO2 output than a modern diesel.

Bluntly, if what I have read on that site can be substantiated, we need a modern Ralph Nader.

It would appear that the Prius is fine for the Snow Bird states but do not sell it or allow it to go to areas that experience the Fall, puddles, ice or snow.

[Dave]

Didn't British Rail, as they were known then, go through the same phase over 30 or 40 (could be much longer) years ago with the diesel electric engine? Now they prefer a single fuel to power the engine. But, hey, this is derived from overhead cables and not troughs of diesel that the steam trains used to get water from. Could be very difficult for a car to connect to overhead wires with all the wagons about.

How would a dual fuel car cope in these conditions? My long trips are about 532 round trips, which my car can do on one tank and still leave me with lots of running about fuel and with £115 road tax? Usually at speeds of above 70 MPH.

Dave

[Dave]

I have at my disposal the following...

The M6, M61. M65. M66, M60, M62, M56, M57, M58. I'm sure I have forgot one. All within a few minutes drive away.

I also drive from where I live by joining the M6 until I get to the M42 and then the M40. At this point I leave the motorway and join the A 34 until I get to the M3. After a few miles along there, I join the M27, until I get to the M275 and leave into Portsmouth. Total distance of 266 miles. I'll leave you to work out how many miles a pensioner drives on a motorway.

Get a prius to do that on one tank.

Oh! I forgot, I do that as a return trip, using only one tank of fuel and a lot of running about in Portsmouth. So no chance of a re charge to get me home.

Next :-)

Is that why wagon drivers have them? And Black cabs regularly go on for at least a quarter of a million miles until they are run in, as an engine running in.

?

Dave

[Jules]

Bah, I was having a total brain-fart. It was an XJ6 I was remembering (badly ;) not an XJS - conversion done by Avon Coachworks. (see

The Lynx XJS wasn't half bad (just been googling) - they seemed to manage to integrate the changes in with the original styling pretty well.

cheers

Jules

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Haven't you worked out that dribble has no experience of anything he spouts about? It's all got from the internet. The hacksaw episode proves it to perfection.

[Clot]

I agree.

I frequently do 300 miles a day, as I did today, whoops no yesterday, will not do for a couple of days but will on Saturday. No use to me then (the Tesla).I'll stick to my diesel that does over 50mpg and carries four folk in comfort. (pumping less CO2 into the atmosphere than a petrol car, both in use and refining fuel).

Whilst we have had a few petrol motors over the last 25 years, the significant majority have been diesel. The lowest mpg I can recall for a diesel unit that I have had has been 48.5 mpg. I have always logged all fuel used. Motors have included, not in chronological order: Maestro, Rover

400,600, 2 Fiesta Mk 3s, Peugeot 405, 2 Focus (estate and hatch) and a 206cc.

The most fun and powerful unit in practice was the Rover 2 litre motor that I think BMW killed because it would destroy their new unit at the time.

I've sold two cars with over 200,000 miles on the clock purely because I was scared of the cost of replacing an engine in an old car for economic reasons, not because there was anything wrong with the unit.

At present, the diesel unit is the best pratical power which minimises impact upon the environment.

Wave Bye Bye to Weed, said Andy!

[Dave Plowman (News)]

At a constant 50 mph, possibly. Under normal conditions 100 miles or so is more like it. Much less if you use the performance it's advertised so heavily as having.

[Clot]

Did you really have to mention that? I need a Round Tuit. I've an A35 4 door sat in the garage that I have not used for 22 years. I'm just waiting for the time that I can get round to sorting out and putting on the road for the occasional weekend trips in the summer that will be just as inconvenient to other folk as caravans are! Seriously, I do have one and wish to use on limited occasions.

For Weed's information, the origin motor in that did 144,000 miles if I recall correctly after all this time.

Many years ago, I put in a Gold Seal 1097/1198, I don't recall the size now, but with a 908 flywheel, but folk at the time were staggered when I pulled away from the lights knocking spots off Vivas, Avengers and the rest.

I have to confess to doing diriculous speeds down the hill from Corley into Brumagen on the M6 a centaury ago in it.

[Clot]

Smart?

[John Rumm]

Not really a consideration if you are buying a range rover... There is more weight and expense going into all cars to improve levels of refinement, and safety, and to increase equipment levels - so you might as well get used to it.

[John Rumm]

But obviously better than the prius they actually sell (rather than the mythical 60mpg one they market)...

Compared to fuel cell cars they are both irrelevant IMO. The prius has no real point in most places outside the US and a few big cities anyway. I doubt EVs are going to evolve fast enough to compete with fuel cell cars once they start to gain awareness, since they have the advantage of allowing people to run their lives and cars in the exactly same way as IC powered cars. If you think of hydrogen as bottled electricity, with none of the titting about charging, no expensive infrastructure with high current supplies etc. Infinite range, quick refuelling, no emissions at point of use - it could be singing from the prius hymn sheet but without the same level of pious bull.

Save the full EV for the milk floats and toy sports cars.

[Rod]

I think you just might mean what they called the electro-diesel.

Diesel-electrics use a diesel engine and electric transmission. Electro-diesels run from external electricity or, if needed, onboard-generated electricity from their own diesel engines.

The Class 73, for example, ran on Southern Region's third rail system. Often used when there were engineering works (which disrupted the third rail supply or routed trains over non-electrified track) and for rescue purposes. (On Southern Region, AIUI, some of the regular pure diesel-electric locomotives were limited as to the routes they could run on. The Class 73s were unusually narrow/compact and had wide route availability within SR.) So far as I know, the 73s always ran on third rail when possible.

They (railway operators) might prefer single fuel (which I read as electricity, probably overhead), but if nothing else they need diesel for overhead catenary maintenance! Even Eurotunnel have a couple of old

73s. And I don't think any other transmission than electric (e.g. mechanical or hydraulic) proved reliable enough.

[Rod]

I haven't now seen an electric milk float for at least a year. And, close to home, not in several years.

[Rod]

Messerschmitt? BMW Isetta? Heinkel?

Used to hate their looks, now I quite fancy one (for occasional fun). But really that is just sad old git reminiscence mode.

[Don't you love spelling checkers? Offered me "Schoolmistresses" for Messerschmitt.]

[Adrian]

The Natural Philosopher gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying:

Turbos aren't "drip fed" engine oil, they have a high flow feed across their bearings - and, of course, that feed stops the instant the engine's turned off, despite the fact that the turbo may well still be rotating at

100,000rpm and at somewhere north of 1,000degC.

They need very good quality oil, else that's going to carbonise the oil almost instantly. Most turbos are watercooled, too, but - again - that only gets you so far once the engine's switched off.

[Mark]

Fuel cells sound very interesting but where is all the hydrogen going to come from? If it is produced using electricity generated from fossil fuels then it's no better than petrol/diesel.

[The Natural Philosopher]

To meet those requirements with all-electric is still 5-8 years away.

A one hour recharge time with about 250 miles range is currently technically *possible*. But the production cars are lagging the possibility by about 5 years.

And you shouldn't be doing 532 miles anywa without that hour break.

And, unless the electricity comes from non fossil sources, there isn't much CO2 reduction in the scenario anyway.

I foresee the electric car being the de facto norm in the commute and urban situation, but mainly a a 'second car' with a long ranged diesel being the car of choice for trips like yours. That's in 3-5 years time. then over the next decade expect the electric technology to get good enough and the availability of fast charge motorway stations enough to make an all electric fleet a possibility. Some cell technologies can be recharged in less than 5 minutes, but they are still highly experimental. And its always less efficient and decreases battery life versus than an overnight trickle charge.

Electric cars will always be either shorter range or rather heavier, but with regenerative braking, that isn't such a downside on actual kilowatt hour per mile figures.

As another poster pointed out, on a motorway cruise, weight is less an issue than frontal area and wind resistance. So a vehicle with range will have more weight, but not suffer unduly as a result. And regen braking that gets some of the kinetic energy back in teh battery is a great boon.

Urban stuff that does a lot of stop/start benefits from light weight: here a short range car with a small battery is really effective.

I think this is where we well see the first great penetration. A Fiat Punto sized car all electric with about 100 mile range. We are not QUITE there yet.

Theres a couple with about 50 miles range.

[The Natural Philosopher]

I remeber a frined telling me how she was in one of those that rolled right over..on the way back from a pop festival ;-)

Her friend didnt even wake up, she was so 'sedated':-)

The car just carried on..toufgh cars, A35's

The most you could get out of the 1100 sized engine which was a bit of a 'stroker' was about IIRC 90bhp without going mad.

AN LCB exhaust and bigger carbs would get you most of it.

A series were highly tunable. Racing versions got to around 115bhp.

I never took mine that far.

Mind you I have a TRUMPH 1300 engine in the shed now..balnce, lightened, tuned, exhausted and carbed to about 155bhp.

Like the A series, the final limiting factor was the three bearing cranks. New big ends every 30k, new mains every 60k and a new crankshaft every 120k...:-)

B series engine was a dog. Head design was useless. Yu had to START with a gas flowed head.

Most people stuck the V8 in instead.