Permissible inconvenience while council upgrades bathroom

[pamela]

The local council have approved a grant to upgrade my mother's bathroom. She is infirm and needs to have her bath replaced by a walk-in shower. She owns the house.

I have been told she will have a work It is the responsibility of the contractor to ensure the following key facilities are maintained and operational for the occupiers use during the contract period:

(a) Accessible toilet and bathing facilities; (b) The use of a sink for washing purposes and drinking water; (c) etc.

Isn't this saying that there should be a shower or bath available to the occupiers?

[GB]

The council have approved a grant. Who chose the contractors and instructed them?

It certainly sounds like it, but I don't know whether 'bathing facilities' necessarily means a bath or shower? It could just mean a wash-hand basin where the person can wash themselves.

In any case, it could be simply impossible to have a bath available throughout the work, regardless of what the spec says.

[spuorgelgoog]

How the hell does it take two weeks to swap a bath for a shower?

The companies that advertise bath replacement in the TV guides say "usually within one day". Those are with prefabricated wall panels rather than tiling.

Even doing it traditionally, I'd expect 2-3 days work, with a toilet overnight but not a bath.

Council might be able to organise accessible bathing facilities at a day or respite care centre.

Owain

[Jonno]

[e-mail] scribbled

The bathroom will be turned into a wetroom. That ain't an overnight job.

[Brian-Gaff]

Well, it could just be a way to get washed, say in the kitchen using those disposable cloths they give you in hospital with a bowl of water.

OK so it means slumming it for a couple of weeks. Maybe you could all turn it into a kind of adventure. Brian

[Weatherlawyer]

I am afraid that you have found yourself in a pace full of trolls and bulli es. I am sure that if you have a quiet word with someone sensible in charge of the technical side of the housing department responsible you will get s ensible advice and be able to take it further with the social services that made the original arrangements.

I hope you don't settle for anything as ridiculous as you seem to have been offered. Good luck. And please accept the fact you acted in good faith by asking imbeciles and idiots for advice as a simple mistake if an unforgivab le one.

Which it to say they should not be forgiven. This is supposed to be a help group however it has become ruined by self important fools.

[tabbypurr]

I would not accept either of those 2 contract terms. I would insist on toil et facilities of some sort with privacy being available at all times, and a bsence of working bath & shower with hot & cold water to be limited to 24 o r if pushed maybe 48 hours.

I would not let contractors on site to begin any works until sensible terms were agreed. I would probably also insist on a clause granting pre-agreed compensation if such terms were not met.

Presumably at this point the work is already happening. Terms should have b een sorted out beforehand. You can argue over the above now, but arguing ac hieves little if you can't do anything constructive about it. It's most lik ely too late to do much practically, other than deduct a sum later for fail ure to provide the agreed services.

If you want to play hardball you could tell them they'd be barred from the site if they fail to meet the terms, and the job then completed at their ex pense, but that doesn't imply that you necessarily can do that successfully .

NT

[ARW]

I have done the electrics on a quite a few of these jobs. The last one had a concrete floor that needed digging up for the drains fitting to make it a wetroom. Even the easy ones take a week - I suppose people forget that as well as just turning up with a shower tray you need plumbers, plasterers, electricians, tilers and wet room floor (basically lino) fitting guys.

As the shower is usually been fitted because the client cannot use a bath then they are no worse off when the work starts than before it started.

I should also pointed out that 99% of the people having this work done are happy with it and appreciate how hard the tradesmen work to make sure that the toilet is back on every day and that the water and electric are off for as a short a period as you can manage.

[pamela]

Thank you for your kind word, NT.

The comments from the haters and trolls are based on such miscomprehensions that they effeortlessly glide over me like water off a duck's back. I mention of the true circumstances here: Message-ID:

All in all, it seems a bit harsh that an very elderly person who is infirm and unsteady on her legs and also suffers a number of significant cognitive problems is planned, by local authority contractors, to be without bathing facilites for 2 weeks. Hopefully that period was set to cover all eventualities and that the true time required will be shorter.

You're probably right that I spotted this clause too late to do much about it after the go-ahead had been given.

[Dave Liquorice]

Interestig one as daughter lives with mother and presumably will continue to live in the property after the departure of mother. Wording of the terms of the grant is critical.

TBH having to pay back a grant at all, let alone all of it +5%, at anytime for ten years strikes me as a bit odd and not something I've come across before. All the Grants I've come across only stipulate a set of "deliverables" and if they aren't met the money can be clawed back. How you have "deliverables" for this essential home alterations sort of grant I don't know.

[Jonno]

Dave Liquorice scribbled

I know of similar work that was carried out on a privately rented property. The house has been sold recently and much of the work has been ripped out. I don't think the council received any money from the sale.

[Jonno]

pamela scribbled

FFS you live there, you've been in a position from Day 1 to know the full details of what's involved in the work. I pity the poor sods who are doing the work and who'll have to put up with your constant whining over the next couple of weeks.

[pamela]

I was almost duped by your posts, Jonno, and thought it would be worth explaining things to you further. However when you wrote about using a "gallon of cheap perfume" it became clear that you are trolling.

I now see that not even you believe the straw man arguments you are posting, so I will ignore them if you don't mind.

[Jonno]

pamela scribbled

The reverse is correct. Not once have you mentioned the effect of the work on yourself, so I have to assume you're all right jack. Is it too much like hard work to help your mother get clean. Many people who have or do live with elderly parents have to bath them at some point, it appears you'll be sending the poor old dear away at the first opportunity.

You forgot to add the old "ad hominem" copout when someone is looking a dick on Usenet.

[pamela]

Thank you for a civil reply this time, Jonno. Unfortuantely I still have not changed my opinion of you since you made this barbed, incorrect and uncalled for comment about me: "we're only hearing from the spinster daughter". You know nothing about my marital status and your guess (presented as fact) is incorrect.

Similarly, you know nothing of my relationship with my mother nor of any disabilities I may have myself. If I don't mention my difficulties in doing tasks then you are wrong to assume they do not exist.

All in all, me and my situation bear no resemblence at all to any of your barbed statements, which means your adverse comments have no effect on me whatsoever. Sorry about that. May I suggest we now stick to facts.

If you are unable to offer any help with respect to the practical interpretation of the terms of the Specification of Works I quoted in the opening post of this thread then hopefully you will find a way to overcome your compulsion to make unhelpful interjections.

[GB]

So, Pamela, have you sorted anything out with the contractors yet?

[pamela]

Hiya GB thank you for asking. Unfortunately in practical terms there doesn't seem much that can be done (short of special arrangements to ferry my mother to and from the local baths for a dip and that doesn't seem to have ever been on the cards).

I don't much fancy our chances of enforcing those clauses in the specification.

Time was when most people had only a weekly bath and I guess we're going to experience that again unless the neighbours help out. I may start to sound significantly more desperate about the situation in a week from now!

How's your leaking tap doing?

[ARW]

I offer my apologies as I would never intend to offend a "sweetheart":-)