Penetrating damp at ground floor of gable end Victorian terrace. So, sopping wet when its been raining and dry most of the rest of the time but leading to mold etc...
Wall construction is brick with stone facing and lime pointing. modern plaster inside.
Do I...
Damp proof paint inside? Masonry water repellent outside? Both? Control the mold and live with it?
Opinions gratefull received...
Among other things, check the guttering.
F
No to all those. Ask somewhere where they know
NT
I forgot: have a look at The Control of Damp in Old Buildings,
I think you'll find this has been done to death if you check the archives
kev007,
I think I had / have the same problem as you.
I live in a 100 year old end terrace which had damp all along the gable end wall.
Basically my house is in the middle of the street, but since there is an alley way on one side, it is an end terrace. It turns out that it was the floor level in the alley that was too high, and this was bringing in damp. The damp was only on that wall. The rest of the house was OK when inspected. The plaster was crumbling, there was salts visble on that wall as well as mold (only a little though). I had several quotes from Damp proofing comapnies, all pretty much agreeing on this as the cause of damp
Basically they were mostly all offering the same fix
Exteranally the best option was to lowver the alleyway ground level to the correct height (2/3 brick lines below internal floor level if I remember correctly). This would have been a big job. Second option was not possible then dig a channel 4-6inches wide and the whole length of the outside wall. Dig down same level, but fill with pea gravel.
Internally, remove bad plaster (there was a lot of it). Install DPC. Internal tanking below DPC level (using a slurry?). Then replaster. Ensure all airbricks where clear of rubble and allowed free flowing air.
When the floorboards where lifted there was loads of rubble underneath (old plaster from reonvations I guess by the previous owner). I had to remove all this as well, to allow air to pass through from front to back etc.
I used a national company for the damp andplastering work, but before I instructed anyone I called in a independant suryeyor to asses the damp problem. He charged me a small fee, but since he was not going to be doing the work, my thinking was that he would give me fairly honest advice.
It may be worth you doing the same. Sometimes it could be as simple as leaking guttering (as mentioned by somoene else here).
Hope this helps
Bhupesh
Er, no, don;t ask there, its all opinion and no actual experience.
Ask here. Where people can and have built many houses and repaired more.
First thing is to establish whether is water being driven in by rain on a gable, or water being sucked up from the soggy ground..due to klack of damp course....or indeed water falling down a cavity from a leak higher up.
The trouble is so many people have opinions when the actual problem itself is not yet understood.
Often these gable end walls are damp from top to bottom, especially if they face south/west, and that is usually a clear indicator of penetrating damp. Most don't have gutters, down pipes or windows so the list of culprits is somewhat reduced. The quick and easy solution is a high spec solvent based masonry paint, such as Johnstone's Stormguard. Not cheap, but it definitely works, and water based paints definitely don't. Not for the building huggers maybe but some of us just want to keep our families warm and dry.
If you read the reasearch you'll find it is. If you go to the pp forum you'll gradually pick up an understanding of how it all works thats based on that research.
The trouble is if you come here you hear a lot of pop-sci that is more popular than correct. Uk.d-i-y is a fine place, but when it comes to damp in old properties the expertise is just not there. Too many people still doing what was accepted practice decades ago, and not getting willing to read up on the knowledge that has been gained since.
It wont change.
NT
You the champion of recent knowledge? Do me a favour
Stuart,
Thanks for that. My gable end walls face north. I did think that it could be something to do with the wall, because it is painted totally black top to bottom. I think this is some kind of bitumen based paint to waterproof the wall. I have noticed that other gable end walls in other end terraced houses in my area are all painted black with the same substance.
I have been told that years ago (dont know when) the thinking was that painting the walls with this was a good thing, and that nowawday it is considered a bad thing. What I have not been able to find out what type if paint is, why it would have been applied and how easy it is to get off and whether it really is bad for my property Any ideas? Should i be worried
Also the independant surveyor looked at the wall, but said it looked OK. But, he looked at it from ground level only so I cant read much into that. Its difficult to climb up a ladder anyway as the alley way is quite narrow.
I'll be looking into the product you mentioned, but I guess that I would have to remove the existing paint somehow before hand.
Bhupesh
North facing with an alley shouldn't really pose a problem with penetrating damp. If it does you'll probably see it upstairs as well as down.
I did think that it
Aquaseal still do a "bituminous solvent based black paint", but normal paints won't bond to bitumen.
Well, fashion (and "thinking") changes, and the house has survived this long, so I can't see much point worrying about something where your options are so limited. Putting more of the same on is about all you can do and, with a long handled roller, it wouldn't be that awful a job.
so I cant read much
"Somehow" being the operative word. Don't even think about it :-)
If you describe your symptoms in a bit more detail, it might suggest alternative strategies
I know how it all works. In this case, how it works is not teh issue. The cures are all simple, but its teh problem that is not understood.
Especially by you.
The lwas of nature don;t change. Science and partuicularly technology does.
Anyway, the issue is, is the problem due to a high leak into the cavity, driving rain into the wall, or water pooling at the base and being sucked up.
In every case the solution is different, and in some case applying the solution to the wrong problem will make things worse.
This is especially true of people with a little knowledge, and a high opinion of themselves. ,
Mainly my symptoms were damp downstairs, which has been sorted i think by new DPC, intrnall tanking, opening vent bricks and reducing outside ground level by digging a channel and filling with gravel.
However upstairs in one room I get moldon that wall, which leads me to believe there is something wrong on that wall. I do try and go out when its raining to spot anything, but really dont know what I'm looking for. As you mention theres no guttering, windows or anything else, but still cant see water gushing down anywhere. Originally I thought that, the black paint had sealed the wall and so it could not breath, causing the mold upstairs. Or maybe there is a defect in that painting (over time) that is allowing water in, but cant really spot anything.
Its also possible that I simply need to have the wall re-pointed.
Bhupesh
you havent even read the research. Your comments show basic ignorance of the knowledge gained in the last decade or two time after time. Only a fool insists he knows it all when he wont even read up on it first.
since there arent as many combinations of solutions as properties, that could not be true.
The causes and their solutions are known and very limited in number.
exactly, and that is why best practice has changed greatly in the last decade or 2. The problems caused by the older ways you recommend are known now, and the way old properties handle damp is much better understood today.
a well studied human failing.
That Mr Noble agrees with you says a lot :)
NT
These gable end walls often have very little overhang on the roof tiles so rainwater blown across the roof drips on to the wall quite high up. Ideally the water runs down the wall before it has a chance to soak in but, if the coating has failed, this may not happen.
I do try and go out
Originally I
You can check for condensation by fixing a mirror to the damp wall and checking at different times of the day to see if it mists up. Moist air seeks out cold surfaces, even if they're some way away from the source, but this is almost exclusively a winter problem.
Or maybe there is a defect in that
It probably won't be obvious. Usually it's a series of hairline cracks over a wide area that you may not see, even if you're up close. The simplest way forward would be to put another coat of the black stuff on.
A massive task given the existing finish, and one that may not be a complete solution because the bricks themselves may be too porous. It sounds like the wall may have been finished that way from day 1 if the other houses are the same, and inferior bricks used with that in mind.
And still you can't tell us what they are.
Maybe you forgot the link I gave
NT
You always give the same link, and it leads to a bunch of loonies
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