Part P (again)

[IMM]

You are obviously very simple.

[IMM]

I repeat "am brilliant at English and life in general".

[IMM]

I already have, quite simple of course.

[IMM]

Is that third world wit?

[IMM]

You were.

[Andy Hall]

One can tell that Christmas is coming.......

[James]

I thought it was mandatory to have a pressure check whenever a new appliance was fitted - or the meter changed. In some cases this may not occur very frequently.

James

[Ed Sirett]

I think when that time comes, the likely approach will be to build state of the art conversion plants that convert to methane from [coal or whatever] and put it in the national gas pipework.

I really don't think that we will return to supplying N2/H2/CO mixtures.

[Rich Williams]

whole thing totally stupid! Bullshit! un-enforceable!

66,000 electrical contracting businesses in the UK! 10,000 registered with NICEIC, 3000 with ECA hence 50,000 firms or 70% approx of the Electrical Contracting industry will be working illegally in January! unless they register with an approved scheme - in other words - pay the cash - get a card!

schemes hurriedly being set up - cause there's money in it! NICEIC have said(they can increase resources, staff, buildings, administration, etc) by 500% in 6 months - BULLSHIT!

What about plumbers, kitchen fitters, bedroom fitters, little builders, conservatory guys, garden landscapers, and a host of other trades who fiddle with electrics? all now illegal! Hence CORGI, FENSA etc are trying to set up schemes for limited scope certification (government guidelines apparently published this week but I haven't found em yet) They are all in this 'cause there is money to be made!!

T'is a money making scam the likes of which Jimmy Hoffa would be proud!

Me-thinks the electric police will not be bothering the DIY guy for a while cause - there is no DIY police (Building Control have no electrical inspectors - and they are few and far between hence they will be busy - no-one can train any new ones cause no-one knows how to do it - pay yer money get the card!) and they have bigger fish in sight (50,000 electrical contacting businesses)

Incidentally - I spent some 20 years investigating fires / deaths etc - I have seen a number of electrocutions, equally suicides and accidents or faulty appliances. Many fires due to a number of causes including faulty appliances and misuse of appliances. I have never seen a fire attributable to faulty electrical wiring. You try to set something on fire with normal electrical wiring and fittings - you cannot do it - try it? It can be done but is extremely difficult - try it -nb I will not responsible if anyone tries it and burns the house down!

BULLSHIT - IGNORE IT - NOT ENFORCEABLE

IN the meantime - dont forget that every-one has a legal (HSW act) and a moral responsibility (civil law) to ensure what they do is safe! If you c*ck it up and hurt someone or damage something - it is your responsibility and you could pay the price - compensation , fines, jail. That's the bottom line - do it right then there will not be a problem.

Cheers - this has been winding me up for a while!!

Nb :- coincidence new wiring colours - so the non-existent electric police can tell what is old work and what is new? coincidence house buyers package with certificates etc?

Jimmy Hoffa - you need to go to the likes NICEIC, ECA or CORGI for lessons in how to get control of an industry!

[Andrew Gabriel]

The trade press makes for amusing reading. Stuffed full of complaints by electricians about both Part P and the new wiring colours, and stuffed full of adverts to join the accredited organisations. It would seem that takeup has been very low, leaving majority of electricians, in particular most of those who do domestic work, outside accredited schemes.

Also, a number of electricians near retirement age have decided this is the moment to bail out and put their feet up.

NICEIC just bought out one of the other schemes (making somewhat of a mochary of the ODPM emsuring there were several to choose from).

I know CORGI and FENSA are in on the act. I suspect the government is starting to get concerned that electricians aren't willing to join any of the schemes.

[Andy Hall]

I'm just waiting for Prescott to be interviewed on the Today program and say that it's really not that important anyway and he doesn't know what all the fuss is about.

[Rich Williams]

[Rich Williams]

[Stefek Zaba]

Not that IMM will accept any kind of correction (if he does, it's hat + sauerkraut + kinfe and fork for me ;-): but the phrasing of statutes, regulations, and the like is a matter of absolutely rigid convention when it comes to "ands" and "ors". Here in the UK, parliamentary drafters - and by extension, writers of "official" regulations who knock around those circles - uniformly and consistently express "a OR b OR c OR d" in the following layout and wording: a, b, c, or d

and in the same way for ANDing them - in both cases the clauses are oftern numbered, resulting in the following pattern

(i) a, (ii) b, (iii) c, and (iv) d

No, to those of us with a background in programming languages or symbolic logic it's not a terribly satisfactory notation. But in the field of legal drafting it's been established and understood by all practitioners for mumbly-mumble centuries; so learning what the convention is and applying that knowledge is a basic foundational skill for comprending legislation and enacting regulations.

You can complain about this being a "snot conspiracy", if you like. You can campaign to get it changed. While you're at it, you can campaign like George Bernard Shaw did for speling reform. "Teach a man to ghoti, and he'll spend Sundays out on the canal instead of d-i-y'ing", if you catch my drift...

Stefek

[Stefek Zaba]

Not in this world; as explained in gory detail in an earlier response, this is UK drafting convention to show "and"ing of *all* clauses in the list. Learn it, live with it.

[Stefek Zaba]

Not in the commonly accepted models of causation at the gross material (non-quantum) level - the Part P proposals and basic drafting were completed long before the Darwinian incident you mention, no?

[IMM]

No doubt it is. Scum the lot of them.

[Andy Hall]

But you forget that 2jags can travel back in time. After all, his boss thinks that he walks on water.....

[IMM]

And what a left hook...............my hero!

[Andy Hall]

Right hand, more like......