P.A.T. and hospitals.

[T i m]

Hi All,

My missus recently (last Thurs week) had a new knee fitted (she didn't fancy me d-i-y'ing it for some reason).

She's also (still) going through 'the change' so ranges from hot to volcano at irregular but frequent intervals so we have electric fans installed at strategic locations here in the house and she carries a hand fan as a survival tool.

After the op she asked if there was an electric fan available of any sort and they found her one ("Reception, no not remove" type of thing).

That was fine for a couple of days but then they needed it for a 'patient with a temperature' (no probs with that etc) but knowing how dependant she is on one, I asked if it was possible to 'bring one in from home' (or B&Q round the corner etc).

The reply was 'yes, but it will take a week to get it tested so .. '

I assume they were talking about PAT here (not biological testing) and I was wondering what the rules were and could I have had the fan 'tested' elsewhere and would the little sticker on the plug be sufficient 'proof' that this had been done (if not what point is there to it) please?

All the best ..

T i m

p.s. If anyone here has been though this op and would like to share any thoughs / advice off like please my addy is good. Thanks.

[John]

I guess they can make their own rules and the staff will have to comply (without using common sense)

>

[T i m]

Indeed, but what are the 'rules' re PAT please. Like, if I had it tested at site A could I take it to site B and have it still 'in test' would you know please?

I didn't feel there was a major (political) issue in this particular ward / hospital (they seemed to turn a blind eye re numbers of visitors, mobile phone use etc).

I felt if I had taken our own electric fan in and offered "It's ok, this one has been tested, look " that they would have said 'ok' (assuming that was acceptable, I wouldn't want to case any issues for the staff etc).

All the best ..

T i m

[Mogga]

Has her GP prescribed anything for the flushes?

TBH I'd speak to the doctor in charge and explain how uncomfortable she is and see if he can get someone to come and see her about it so they sort her out a fan or something to deal with them.

[Andrew Gabriel]

There are no global rules -- it's up to each organisation to define its own as part of its risk assessment process. There are a set of IEE guidelines for PAT testing which are also recognised by HSE, but there's no legal requirement to follow exactly those. An organisation might decide that anything coming in from off-site must be PAT tested before use, in which case Site A's test cert would be worthless. A hospital might decide that they are going to have more strict earth leakage requirements than the guidelines, in which case again, someone else's pass might become a fail.

They might accept that, but most likely because the staff concerned were not that familiar with the organisation's exact requirements.

[AndyT]

It makes me laugh that they want to test a fan, but they don't bother cleaning the hospital properly which causes the spread of diseases. PAT is a joke anyway, it's often a case of slapping a sticker on something. Just pinch the sticker off another appliance - no one checks anyway.

[Mark]

From my own experience I agree with A.G. But has the hospital got its own Electronics and Medical Engineering (EME) dep If they are an approachable bunch of chaps you could short circuit the waiting time by asking them to PAT test your fan for use on a ward, worked for me a while ago they even delivered it to the bedside and plugged it in.

-

[Adrian]

T i m ( [e-mail]) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying :

My father had a _pair_ of new knees simultaneously about 18 months ago.

Taking it easy then getting off his arse and *using* them asap meant that he got signed off the post-op physio within record time. I strongly suspect the fact he had both done, and therefore couldn't "go easy" on the done one helped a lot.

[Owain]

Then the fan will disappear somewhere else - it must be a hospital appliance, it's got a sticker on it.

Owain

[T i m]

Thanks for that Andrew. Very clear.

Ok, and that could have worked in our favour (in an informal sense). "I should think that would be ok" sorta thing.

Realistically I could have bought and brought in the exact same make and model bought from the same store as the Hospital did so (potentially) would have been just as 'passable' as their own existing fans and would have been visually acceptable etc (it's the same as ours so should be ok .. ).

Anyway, she's at home now so is ok on that (cold) front! ;-)

All the best and thanks again ..

T i m

[Weatherlawyer]

messagenews: [e-mail]...

I'd just take the fan in and plug it in and let anyone not too busy making up for the deadwood the government brought in as axillary nurses from abroad, kick up whatever stink they have the time for.

I might sweeten the pot by providing a few more if there was a good reception of the first.

I was in hospital a few years ago and the general hygiene standards made me very nervous. It was rather like the feeling you get exploring a deserted workshed/yard or derelict warehouse, only with people. Sort of edgy but interesting.

I gather things have not improved. Which means they have got worse if anything.

[T i m]

Me too in a way, considering the state of the wiring on some of the portable medical kit (outer sheath pulled out of plug top restraining clamps etc).

Well I'd have to say *this* hospital (or wing therein, not our 'local' either) looked very clean and there was always a cleaner doing their stuff.

I'm sure you are right ...

And a plastic (double insulated?) fan anyway ...

All the best ..

T i m

[T i m]

I think she was on HRT for a while but came off as it didn't' help that much and she put on more weight. ;-(

Luckily she's home now so has all the fan's she needs but as it happens a 'different' (and more friendly nurse) found her another fan in the middle of the next night.

All the best ..

T i m

[Geo]

1. remove sticky label from reception fan and stick on yours (temporarily) or
2. word with sister and agree to buy one for ward use (after wife discharged) if she gets it tested in next 1/2 hour...

Geo

[T i m]

The best plan I understand and was my wife's had she not had some weird reaction to the spinal and morphine.

She had the op Thursday morning and was 'rough' for a good couple of days. Physio came round over the weekend and gave her stuff to do whilst in bed and she was waiting outside the gym first thing Monday morning.

I guess it must .. no choice etc? ;-)

She pushed herself to get the required 90 deg bend and short stairs test to get out asap (in spite of being 'happy' there (good food, bed, staff etc)) and I brought her home Wednesday lunchtime.

I believe she's doing all the right stuff but the bit that seems to have her worried / upset / frustrated is she can't properly 'feel' her foot from the instep to the heel. She can feel it as such but it's just quite numb and she get's an uncomfortable sensation when trying to walk 'normally' (heel toe etc).

Of course it's all still early days and a pretty major op but she compares herself with the other patients having the same op at the same time and apparently they weren't suffering the same lack of feeling in the foot ..?

All the best ..

T i m

[Adrian]

T i m ( [e-mail]) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying :

In choosing both-at-once over one-heal-other? His reasoning was that he only wanted to give 'em one chance to give him MRSA...

Indeed. Want a cuppa? No limping and going heavy on the stick "just this once"...

I don't remember Dad muttering about that. Muttering about damn near everything else, yes, but not specifically that.

[T i m]

;-) So as not to stir things up too much had they not found a replacement as quickly as they did (a day) I was going to take a biggish portable / battery jobby in there.

I was willing to do that as well.

LOL. I shouldn't laugh of course, it was just your description! ;-)

Well, this ward / wing did *seem* pretty clean (in general) and everyone seemed to be using the hand gel all the time (including us, I1 was keeping an eye on all that sort of thing).

Mind you, we didn't choose our local hospital for just that reason ...

All the best ..

T i m

[T i m]

I had thought of that and would have done so had they not found something as soon as they had (the missues even text'd me to stand me down) ;-)

But I guess given the choice of drugs / fans ....

All the best ..

T i m

[robert]

Its likely that the PAT testing of non-medical equipment is contracted out.

Although the hospital should have procedures for acceptance testing of electrical equipment it is unlikely that the procedures for non-medical equipment require PAT testing before use for new equipment.

Robert

[nightjar]

You assume wrongly. There are numerous NHS, MDA, EU and international standards that apply to equipment used in hospitals and electrical equipment, in particular, cannot be used unless it can be demonstrated to comply. They don't want life-support equipment failing because of interference from another piece of equipment. Most medical equipment is made to the standards and certified by the manufacturer, under the Medical Devices Directive. A generic fan has no such certification and will need to be tested, which is not something your local electrician will be equipped to do.

Colin Bignell