Outside electrics and a spur

[Tony Geo]

Hi

I am planning to get an electrician to fit a cable to an outdoor switchbox for the electrics to a koi pond.

However I've got a conservatory which has a spur circuit already which is where I want to cable to exit from the house, Will this be possible or will a simple RCD plug and a hole drilled through the wall be the only option?

Many Thanks

[MikeS]

Tony.

What ever you do, do it before January next year as there are new regulations coming out for electricity similar to gas regulations that require a Gorgi registerd gas man, in the case of eletricity a registered electrictian.

MikeS

[Owain]

"Tony Geo" wrote | I am planning to get an electrician to fit a cable to an outdoor | switchbox for the electrics to a koi pond. | However I've got a conservatory which has a spur circuit already | which is where I want to cable to exit from the house, Will this | be possible or will

An unfused spur from a ring circuit can supply

- one fusec connection unit (FCU) or

- one single 13A socket or

- one double 13A socket

So if you want supply a conservatory socket /and/ the pond, you will need to change the conservatory socket for an FCU (or break the cable at a convenient place before the conservatory socket) and have both the conservatory socket and the FCU for the pond electrics after the first FCU, eg

--------FCU---|---Socket | |---FCU-----------Pond

I say second FCU for the pond because (a) you probably want a double pole switch to isolate the pond electrics whilst leaving the conservatory socket on, (b) the pond electrics may want fusing down to 3A.

| a simple RCD plug and a hole drilled through the wall be the only | option?

That conservatory socket should already be RCD protected (as it may be used for portable appliances outdoors) and using an RCD plug will provide no further protection or discrimination - a fault on the pond electrics can still trip the circuit RCD first.

You will want to use appropriate cable, eg Hi-Tuff with mechanical protection, or armoured (SWA) for direct burial, between the conservatory and the connection box near the pond.

Owain

[Andy Hall]

Neither is quite the case.

Gas regulations require competence first and foremost. The requirement for CORGI registration is for employed and self employed fitters.

An extension to an existing electrical circuit will still be allowed as a minor electrical work within the bureaucratic nonsense of part P of the Building Regulations.

To the OP, if the conservatory "spur" is a spur from a ring circuit, then an outside RCD protected socket could be added as long as the whole spur, including the inside socket is protected via a fused connection unit (i.e. switch with 13A fuse). It isn't permissible to extend a spur from a spur point if the original outlet is on a ring.

On the other hand, if the conservatory "spur" is an individual radial circuit back to its own circuit breaker in the consumer unit, as long as you have a 16A circuit breaker and 2.5mm wiring, you can add the outside RCD socket.

If you want to bury the wiring, then way to do it is to use steel wire armoured cable (SWA) with proper waterproof glands at each end. You could then have an RCD breaker between the conservatory socket (probably inside, or outside in suitable weatherprrof enclosure). At the pond end, you can fit the gland into a waterproof box with O-ring seal and then use sealed cable glands for devices like the pump, underwater lighting, UV and so on.

[MikeS]

Andy, A friend of mine who is a heating and ventilation engineer, who gets the professional bodies magazine and it had an artical on the new regulations that will be in place in January. It seems eletricians will have to take a course to qualify. I'll ask him for copy so I can give chapter and verse. I'm not very happy about it.

MikeS

[Andy Hall]

Trade mags are often a poor source of information on this type of thing because a) the authors often get the wrong end of the stick and b) those from trade organisations are promoting membership and so tend to embellish beyond reality.

So chapter and verse can be found in the Statutory Instrument and in the Approved Document to part P of the Building Regulations which can be found at

There are several points:

- Electrical work beyond what is described as "minor works" become controlled under the Building Regulations. Minor works include extending a circuit, changing fittings but not much more. So new circuits, new CUs and anything in a kitchen becomes controlled.

- Members of certain organisations such as NICEIC and some other schemes with appropriate qualification and training will be able to self certify their work. This is what the government expects to be the norm.

- THe alternative will be to issue a building notice at the local authority or other approved organisation able to administer building notice and inspection. This can be done along with other parts of a project - e.g. an extension and one will pay for it of course. Fees TBD. This will be the route for unregistered electricians and DIYers who wish to do things by the book.

Unlike the gas fitting environment where membership of the trade association is required legally for remunerated work, there will not be a legal requirement for electricians to be registered at all.

So electricians can do the courses, pay their money, join the trade association and self certify - in which case costs for so doing will probably be amortised over their customers over the year - there's an annual union due.

Alternatively they can proceed as now issue building notice and the customer presumably gets charged.

Finally, they can ignore the whole thing and offer the customer a cheaper job outside the clutches of bureaucracy.

You can imagine that NICEIC and others, as soon as the coffers begin to fill with membership money to be running marketing campaigns telling Joe Public that it's a legal requirement to use one of their members. It won't be of course, but I am sure will be postioned that way.

[MikeS]

Andy, You've hit the nail on the head and driven it through my armoured cable Doe!

MikeS