Outside drain problem... Who is responsible?

[guv]

Its just come to my attention that I have a drain problem at the front of my house.

In the garage I have a washing machine plumbed in. (All the waste pipework was already there when we bought the house 10 years ago.)

The waste is fed into a drain which is just outside, which is also fed by the downstairs loo and wash basin. The drain itself is fully covered and sealed. ie it cant overflow at the drain itself. The pipework enters under the surface into the drain, which is all enclosed.

Anyway, it was noticed when the washing mashine started to overflow the inside waste pipe.

I just thought at first the U bend was blocked. (Its in an awkward position and only accessed by moving a fridge freezer etc.)

I used some of that Mr Muscle U bend stuff, and cleared that as instruced after an hour with boiling water. I continued to pour water down after and it seemed OK. Used the washing machine and unfortunately it overflowed again.

So today I tried some stronger stuff. (It says its sulphuric acid!)

Poured water down, and continued to do so. Unfortunately in the end, the overflow pipe just filled back up. It does drain, just slowly.

Anyway, before I pull the stuff out to replace the pipework, I decided to look at that drain outside.

When I lifted the cover, it was full (and very smelly!)

I proded around with a stick, but couldnt feel anything - literally. I was expecting to feel a round pipe inside that I might be able to dislodge some of the crap.

So, I removed as much of the water (if thats what you call it!) and have poured some more of this strong stuff down in hope it clears it.

What I would like to know is if this drain is actually my responsibility given its on y property? I'm thinking it is - but to complicate matters, about 2 years ago, there was roadworks outside. About a month after the workman left, the centre of the road collapsed and lots of water escaped. (Not sure if this was mains water or what it was!) But that fact has got me thinking that these workman may have caused this problem I now have, which has obviously been getting worse over time.

I agree, I might be clutching at straws with this, but one thing is very certain. The road has got busier and now used by larger articulated lorrys. When these pass, the house physically shakes. I dont mean just vibrate - its much stronger than that. It just makes me think theyve left leaving an ongoing problem.

Any thoughts on the legal side of this, as well as the possible implications of these roadworks?

Also - am I going about fixing the problem correctly - or time to call in the professionals?

Cheers in advance....

[Lawrence Milbourn]

I've had similar problems from time to time. I suspected mine was due to a problem on the main road but backing up onto my property. I called Severn Trent and they sent a team out to investigate. They did say that if the problem was on my side of the boundary, I would have to pay. Anyway, it was on their side and has been on their side the subsequent four or five times it has happened. The last time it was a woollen cardigan stuck on a pipe join that had a bit of a step in it. The chap told me that they wouldn't have half the problems if people didn't use as much washing powder. He reckoned that it was this that made all the other bits stick together and block the pipes. They have always responded quickly but I suppose that is because the drain which overflows is in the middle of my front lawn which slopes down to the brook which runs through the village.

Best of Luck.

Lawrence

[guv]

Cheers.... though my "overflow" is in my garage! ;-(

I mentioned earlier that I had poured the "unblocker" liquid down the drain. Alas, that has failed also. Ive just poured down some boiling water in the hope it would all flush its way through and it hasnt. ;-(

So do you think I need to contact my local water authority or a drainage company?

[Mike]

Unless there is a deed showing somebody else as the riperian owner of the drain, you are responsible.

[guv]

OK thanks. I did say I thought it was - though the roadworks part does bring in some doubt as to where the blockage actually is!

[Owain]

It depends where the blockage is - not where the manhole is. The manhole in your garden is almost certainly your responsibility.

There is probably a physical obstruction of the pipe and trying to push down from the flooded manhole will probably only further compact the blockage. The best course of action is probably to find the manhole downstream, which should be dry, and poke rods up till it hits blockage. That will give you the approximate location of the blockage and you can take it from there.

If using rods, do not let them become disconnected in the pipe.

Owain

[Hugo Nebula]

On Sat, 19 Mar 2005 21:48:23 +0000, a particular chimpanzee named guv randomly hit the keyboard and produced:

If it's a public sewer shown on your Water Co's maps, no question; it's theirs. If your house was built prior to 1937 and the drain serves more than one property, it's theirs. Post 1937 or just serving your house, and it's probably yours.

Who caused the damage is another matter. If it's your water companies sewer, they have experts and lawyers to sort this out. If it's yours, that's your job.

[chris French]

It could be a problem out in the main drain in the road. Equally likely ti could be a problem of blockage further down the drain on your property. Failure to clear it with the 'pour down the drain' stuff doesn't mean much, these are meant for clearing grease etc from waste pipes etc. n really blockages from bigger drains.

The way to really is to use some drain rods -I imagine you can hire them. These are flexible rods that you poke down the drain to dislodge a blockage. If you can get it through you length of the drain then you can tell if the blockage is outside your property

[Tony Williams]

Since it is a partial blockage you can do a rough guesstimate of where the blockage is.

Leave the drain to drain away overnight. Throw buckets of water down the drain, until it back-fills. Count the buckets used. Wildly guess about 2 buckets per metre, depending on the dia of the pipeworks.

Since the output from your w/machine is enough to backfill then the blockage will not be far down the pipe. Maybe a simple rodding will send the problem away. Perhaps consider buying a set of rods and doing it yourself.

[Nick Atty]

Although a cheap set doesn't cost much.

You may well have another manhole on the edge of your property, perhaps buried in a hedge (we have). Lifting that will show you where the blockage is.

If you have, and the blockage is on your side, things become (slightly) more pleasant, as you can rod from the empty end. Put an old rag tied firmly on a piece of string into the outlet from here, to stop anything you dislodge from just blocking the next stage, and rod away. There will suddenly be the most disgusting slurping noise, and noisome filth will appear. Fish around with your drain rods and remove anything that looks likely to cause a blockage, then pull out the "plug". Flush with lots of water.

Before you start: a) get ready a supported bin bag to put stuff into without touching it. b) wear the oldest clothes you've got, and either prepare to put them straight into a hot wash, or to bin them. Include gloves or (better) gauntlets in this. c) have someone ready to run a hot bath for you the moment the slurping starts. d) don't eat.

This is a disgusting job that I've done twice now. When you come out of your bath, look up the cost of hiring someone to do the job, and you'll feel a bit better.

Finally, never never never never flush away anything that is supposed to be flushable other than normal loo paper. Do not trust anything the green frog thinks. I speak from bitter experience.

[Nick Atty]

And, if you do this, don't do what a collegue of mine did. Always, always turn them the right way, to keep the nuts tightened.

[Andrew McKay]

The liquid stuff you chuck down these waste pipes is generally not very good at shifting a blockage in my experience. I offer the following advice only to add to the general advice, you probably wouldn't want to rush out and buy everything from scratch.

An excellent way of dealing with deposits which build up over a period of time (this does sound like the problem you are faced with) is to use a pressure washer with a drain cleaning accessory. You can push that drain cleaning hose into the waste pipe to where the blockage is (the blockage is likely to be some sort of fatty deposit I would think), and the high water pressure will blast it away.

However, a real downside for you here is that the pressure washer is likely to backflow into the garage, so you need to be inventive about sealing that gap so that any additional pressure forces the pressure down towards the public sewer and away from the house. You might be able to stuff some rags around the high pressure hose after you have fed it into the waste pipe. You would need to keep your eye on this whilst the pressure is on because a high pressure washer does what it says on the box - it creates a lot of pressure which has to go somewhere.

I had one job not entirely dissimilar to this last year. Problem was that the customers external drain was overflowing into her car parking area because the underground pipes had several years worth of leaves blocking it up. Quick trip to Focus DIY to buy the pressure washer and drain cleaning kit and that problem was resolved quickly.

Pressure washers are handy for cleaning patios too :)

Andrew

[David W.E. Roberts]

I was wondering about this after a 'minor' problem - posted a few days back.

Our drains (serving our property only) run out under the road before joining another pipe (which I don't think is the main sewer - I think it runs down from our neighbours and then on into the main sewer).

So part of the run beyond our boundary and under the pavement and road is dedicated to us alone.

Are we responsible to our boundary, or to the first junction?

One reason I ask is that about 6 months ago the water board came along and asked if they could lift our manhole. Our neighbour was complaining his sewer was blocked. They said that if it was their responsibility then we would be backing up as well (implying that their responsibility started at the main sewer, beyond the join between our pipe and the neighbour(s)).

If you are truly responsible only to your boundary then all you have to do is push the blockage along a bit then get the water company to sort it out.

Hopefully this is true :-)

Cheers Dave R

[nog]

And wheely bins. :-)

[guv]

OK - firstly many thanks to everyone for their suggestions.

Now that daylight is here, Ive now managed to see things a little better and think I know where the problem is.

Firstly the roadworks bit seems to be a red herring.

I mentioned that there was a manhole cover situated on my drive, which is just about 2 yards from the drain itself. Lifting that, reveals the channels themselves are fine from above. There is no visible blockage, nor any water visible. I should also add, that Ive now found out that ours is the last house (of 5) that are served by the same pipes. Obviously if there was water visible, the problem would have been further down in a neighbours - but this isnt the case.

So it would appear that the blockage is between my drain and my manhole. Fortunately the length is not that long.

I have decided to give it one last go with the liquids, before going the rod route. (Only because Ive already bought the stuff!)

The missus is doing her washing OK ATM, but only because the drain cover is off and the water can soak away onto the drive. (The drain only serves a washing machine and wash basin - so nothing offensive to appear!)

Once she's finished, I intend on clearing as much of the water from the drain as possible, then pour the acid to the top. I'll leave that for 24 hours this time, and hopefully that will do the trick.

Failing that, the rods being mentioned - are these normally for hire from a hire shop? Any idea what the charge might be?

[Stuart]

check here ...You are sure to need them again .

[Mike]

On this great day..Sat, 19 Mar 2005 21:48:23 +0000, guv wrote:

>

[Andrew McKay]

Get a bucket of water and chuck it in there. If it drains away rapidly then the blockage is upstream of that manhole cover.

If it is upstream then a pressure washer could potentially be used from this end and pushed upstream - make sure to check the garage end, but my guess would be that the blockage is between the manhole cover and the garage.

Andrew

[Andrew McKay]

Hey, hadn't thought of that!

Colonic irrigation anyone? ;)

Andrew

[Stuart Noble]

Probably the Water Board's problem if it's a shared drain.