OT Windows Vista Warning

That depends what software is a) on the router b) on the machine that would otherwise be connected to the modem (OK so in the case of Vista it's probably true).

Alex

Reply to
Alex
Loading thread data ...

They will face similar costs and difficulties in switching from previous versions of Windows to Vista. They might as well switch to an alternative OS - and continue to use their previous versions of Windows under virtualisation for legacy applications.

Owain

Reply to
Owain

MS doesn't produce any operating systems. The best that they can manage is what amounts to a monitor with eye candy for users and a very weak platform to run service applications. Security profiles are appalling and networking functionality extremely weak.

In short, the company is all about marketing and very little about technology and useful and stable applications.

In terms of server platforms, any of the Unix derived ones by far and away exceed the quality and stability that MS achieves and can even host Windows requirements such as file storage.

In terms of desktops, there are a whole host of applications available for Linux at little or no cost which will even handle files from MS applications.

Commercially, Mac OS X is a proper operating system and comes with a rich set of applications. In short, it just works.

One can even buy MS Office for it, although I note on my machine that if an application does crash, it is invariably Powerpoint, Excel or Word.

Hopefully the anti-trust lobby will go after MS again.

Reply to
Andy Hall

It also has the feel of DRM to me. Requiring hardware drivers to refuse to work with non-approved software and suchlike. One of the biggest problem areas seems, oddly enough, to be Ethernet cards.

Surely Ethernet driving isn't rocket science, so presumably the intention is to prevent existing NICs being used. Perhaps refusing to allow promiscuous mode, to prevent streamed content being sniffed? Or possibly to use a different network protocol in future, one protected by Microsoft patent?

Reply to
Joe

Oh, I don't have to imagine it. I've just done it. Migrating 250,000 users worldwide from NT to XP.

Oh, hang on. They were both MS "operating systems". So why wasn't it seamless and easy? Why are we still trying to demise the NT utility domains? Why did we have to buy third party tools to help us do it?

Could it be that Microsoft sucks, for the 8,341,369th time?

Reply to
Huge

Which is ridiculous

Also ridiculous.

That would simply have the effect of slowing down adoption rate of the "OS"

There are plenty of ways around that, and limiting the ability of hardware to perform or support existing applications would be a shot in the foot

They tried that before with NetBIOS run almost directly on the wire (NETBEUI) and it quickly became irrelevant because it was not routable.

Potentially they could do something over IP which is opaque to the network. There has been a long standing battleground between MS and the network manufacturers in that area with the former regarding the latter as plumbers and the latter regarding the former as incompetent in terms of networking.

Reply to
Andy Hall

I don't think it's valid to compare html (which is really source code) with working compiled code. While the former may be rejected by a more standards-conforming compiler or browser the latter should work on subsequent versions of the same operating system (Vista is Windows, isn't it?). Also, knowing a program doesn't work under Vista and doing something about it are quite different things. Seems Vista was actually designed to break a lot of old code.

Reply to
Bob Martin

Well, making Vista more secure was part of the drive behind it. We know that XP and earlier versions of Windows allowed poorly written software to do things that made the OS insecure. If Virgin's software did things that it shouldn't do (I don't know that this is the case, but it IS possible), I would expect ot not to work on Vista. Again; why blame MS for that?

Reply to
OG

That would be a simple project.

That's because it isn't an OS

Because they are incompetent as well as being overbearing?

Users find value in applications, not the means on which they run.

Reply to
Andy Hall

I'm no fan of Windows, but I doubt that statement would stand up to scrutiny.

Reply to
Bob Eager

Indeed. They're hardly in a position to do so - punters are far more likely to change to an ISP that offers support than not to use Vista.

But surely you don't need that support? I'm with Pipex and set up my connection from basics - I'm using RISC OS, and non of the large ISPs offer support for that.

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

Poorly written application software should not be able to compromise the platform on which it runs.....

That's one of the things that denotes the difference between an OS and a monitor

e.g.

formatting link

Reply to
Andy Hall

If everyone had your level of competence and knowledge then Microsoft would probably have gone out of business many years ago and this problem would never have arisen. As to whether Vista deserves to be called an operating system, take away the flashy graphical desktop and you are about where mainframe OSs were

25 years ago.
Reply to
Bob Martin

If you've got religion, you're free from scrutiny.

Reply to
Stuart Noble

For comparison, Apple did not just change operating system, they also changed the entire platform from PowerPC RISC to Intel without any of the users really noticing the change. Even binaries compiled for the (completely incompatible) Power PC platform run without too much strain.

It's inconceivable to think of Microsoft pulling this off when they foul up again and again simply creating a new version or minor update to a current product.

It's obviously not shortage of money that causes Microsoft's woes, Apple only had a fraction of the capital. There's something deeply wrong at M$ because they recruit good people from the same background as Apple (and all the rest) draw their talent from and then M$ spectacularly fail to allow those people to perform their job properly.

BTW, a few years ago there was a spoof advert of Microsoft designing packaging for an iPod. Rumours were that it was made by an in-house M$ team to show how not to do it:

formatting link
current Zune packaging shows no one at M$ listened or cared.

Reply to
Steve Firth

Yup, you can access the web server in the modem via a web browser usually (assuming it is their usual motorola modem)... I tend to apply the same logic to any broadband hardware, if you ignore the supplied software and talk directly to the box you get a much more straightforward setup usually.

The way to deal with these is to use a ethernet to ethernet broadband router[1]. Connect it to the NTL modem box and then it handles NAT and sharing on your lan etc. There was a time where NTL used to enforce MAC address filtering on the network device that could connect to the modem, so during initial setup the MAC address of the NIC would have been set. Hence you had to register the MAC address of the router with them via a web site or tech support call. IIRC they allowed up to five different MAC addresses to be logged for one modem (obviously once the router was one of those any other restrictions became irrelevant). They seem to have dropped that restriction now though.

[1] Linksys do a range of reasonable ones that are my default weapons of choice here.

Equally it could be they support staff have not been trained (or more likely do not have the first line tech support scripts) to talk people through setting up network settings under vista - IIUC an area where there has been quite a significant area of change.

Reply to
John Rumm

It may have had some credence on Win9/ME sat on top of DOS, but I don't think one can apply it to any of the NT based products. Remember these were based on OS foundations designed by Dave Cutler and crew. (THis shows at the NT native API where the similarities to VMS can be striking!)

Reply to
John Rumm

Pandering to the behest of the entertainment industry such that they let them play in the "convergence" market.

Its a massive potential market that MS have been trying to get a foothold in for years... what else are they going to do?

Reply to
John Rumm

Exactly my point. Credibility is lessened (IMO) by quoting anything from Wikipedia..

I agree completely about the API. And, for that matter, NTFS.

I still have a VAX or three...

Reply to
Bob Eager

Did you have to post this after I'd been given an afternoon cup of tea?

Reply to
Andy Hall

HomeOwnersHub website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.