OT - Wind Turbines

[The Natural Philosopher]

Mm. I spent last night researching. Intel Atom looks suitable and available from people I trust..cases are expensive..especially rack..

[Bob Eager]

They are. Prices have jumped with the weakened pound. I was paying £140 for a case that is now £200....but they are lovely cases.

[T i m]

After quite a few tests with boxes, boards, CPU's and boards I opted for an Atom 330 for my Windows Home Server. 3 x 500G laptop drives running Drive Extender help keep the power down and I think it's runs at about 39W (3W suspended).

also went with a cheap (£17) midi tower case and PSU as the PSU used a silent 120mm fan, drawing air upwards from inside the case. This allowed me to put a poly carbonate duct over the board and replace the chipset heat sink and fan with a larger passive heat sink (the duct forces air drawn by the PSU fan to be passed better over the system board and it's components).

Air dams around the inside-front of the case ensured the air drawn in by the PSU fan had to pass over the 3 (rubber suspended) hard drives, keeping them under 30 DegC (all other case vents / grilles were blocked to force the air though this path, aided by convection).

Being std stuff it means I can get a replacement PSU (should one be needed etc) very cheaply and easily (unlike some of these smaller cases and PSU's).

The whole lot sits invisibly behind the TV and is inaudible in anything other than a totally silent room. ;-)

Sort of bringing it back on topic I run 'Lights-Out' on it (so it starts when the first client PC starts and shuts down with the last client shuts down) and that tells me:

"Since 1/3/2010, recorded days 210.

Energy used 159 kWh. Cost incurred £15.93 *

Saved Energy 42 kWh. Saved money £4.23.

Saved CO2, 28.8 kg "

Cheers, T i m

• I have no idea if that cost is correct, I just set it at 10p / kWh but our E7 is a bit off atm meaning it's running in quite a bit of E7 time.

p.s. If it's running a torrent above a certain bandwidth threshold, local traffic with similar or has remote access active it stays on.

[Clothears]

What, to add to the degree in aeronautical engineering she already has, you mean? Thanks, I'll let her know.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Yup.

That's exactly what I mean.

Analysis if the wind turbine blades, which I am sure she is far more competent to do than I am, tells her nothing about the overall impact of windpower on the national grid. For that you need thermodynamics and electrical engineering and a fairly good understanding of heat engine theory and practice..

Ask her to point to one peer reviewed study anywhere in the world that even attempts to answer the very simple question

"will adding renewable energy sources to the UK national grid result in any overall reduction in the use of fossil fuels, and if so, how much, and finally, at what cost compared with any other means by which the same result could have been achieved?"

My anger is directed towards those who frame policy without having even

*asked* those fundamental questions, let alone arrived at any clear cut answer.

[Another Dave]

Then she should know better than to peddle the wind industry's latest piece of of deliberate obfuscation.

The subsidy junkies are currently spamming/trolling the fact that conventional sources are DELIBERATELY switched off half the time (because there is no demand) and comparing it with pixie power's INTERMITTENT nature.

I, reluctantly, have to agree with The Natural Philosopher here. I can't begin to understand how we got ourselves conned into subsidising this ludicrous idea.

Another Dave

[The Natural Philosopher]

No need to be so grudging.

As to how we got here..politics. The need to be seen to be doing something, and the careful phrasing of the commitments to avoid any mention of carbon reduction, juts a commitment to use renewable energy.

It's part of the basic lack of scientific and technical competence in European governments, that has occured over the last 20 years, and the total lack of real public service they offer.

Philosophically I think its down to the whole Left mirage of egalitarianism: They have essentially stuffed positions of authority with the mediocre.

[David Hansen]

On Fri, 01 Oct 2010 11:58:27 +0100 someone who may be Tim Streater wrote this:-

We already know about the load factor of offshore wind farms. DUKES , Chapter 7, Table 7.4. 30% should be achieved easily, despite the long posts of the nay-sayers.

The figures are produced by those great friends of renewables the Atomic Energy Authority.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Not that it will reduce any carbon fuel burnt ..

30% load factor on wind, is not 30% load factor on conventional, in terms of how you must cater for it.

[David Hansen]

On Mon, 04 Oct 2010 09:40:10 +0100 someone who may be Another Dave wrote this:-

The recently restarted Sizewell B was not switched off because there was no demand.

Neither was Longannet, when its failing (together with the failure of Sizewell B shortly before and other stations not being available) caused the lights to go out in parts of southern England.

[David Hansen]

On Mon, 04 Oct 2010 09:40:10 +0100 someone who may be Another Dave wrote this:-

One of the interesting things about the anti-wind lobby is the way they try and denigrate anyone who supports or works in wind. It just shows how desperate they are.

There is a lot of advanced engineering in wind turbines, a degree in aeronautical engineering will be very useful for working on designing blades and pitch systems.

almost 1240 MW at the moment, and that is just what National Grid can measure (the larger wind farms). Smaller wind turbines, connected to local distribution systems, probably double that.

As for the subsidy, not all the Renewables Obligation goes to wind (a figure I have seen suggests that when administration and other forms of generation are removed around half of it goes to wind). In

2007 the RO put an average of £9 on annual household electricity bills. Perhaps by now it is £15. Not a lot of money and well spent as it starts to decarbonise electricity, makes us less reliant on imports of fuel [1] and helps stabilise electricity prices. [1] all the uranium, an increasing amount of gas and a great deal of the coal burnt in power stations are imported.

[The Natural Philosopher]

The problem is, that it does neither.

Show me one STUDY that shows conclusively that any renewable* ever has or ever will produce any significant carbon reduction when coupled into a real world grid with real world consumers needing reliable 24x7 power.

The actual evidence is to the contrary.

the ROC has wasted enormous amounts of money on delivering almost no significant carbon fuel reduction. Direct wind farm subsidies waste even more, fr even less.

*apart from biomass or biofuel operating into conventional generating sets.

So is all the gas that is mandatory to back up the renewables.