OT: wifi setup advice

[Lobster]

Just had one of those phone calls I dread...

My 76-year-old mum has recently seen a netbook (ie a mini internet-enabled laptop), decided it's the best thing since sliced bread, she wants one, and how does she go about it?

Far be it from me to dissuade her from this course - it's great that she's such a technophile at her age, but I groaned inwardly at all the implications, especially as she lives at the other side of the country and I very rarely visit there (she prefers to come to us). (I spend a fair amount of time using XP's "Remote Assistance"!)

Currently she accesses the internet via a hard-wired desktop PC on ADSL broadband in the spare bedroom; hence the main use for the proposed netbook is so she can use the internet downstairs sitting in front of the fire keeping my dad company while watching TV, and can then put it away easily when not needed.

So the main issues are:

1. Converting her existing connection to to WiFi
2. Ensuring adequate signal downstairs in the living room.

Regarding (1); I don't know a hell of a lot about her setup as personally I have a cable modem plus router; I know she currently has ADSL which I think she got as a package from her ISP, OneTel (now TalkTalk), so presumably she has a modem between her phone and the PC.

What should I be looking for in terms of new kit? Does she need a wireless router which will sit between the existing modem and the old PC, or should she have a new combined modem/router thingy from TalkTalk or something? Or maybe either? I'm looking for the simplest solution for setting up really.

The second worry - ensuring adequate signal. It's quite a long way from the spare room to the living room, with really old thick walls, so I'm concerned the wifi signal won't reach from a router upstairs. We won't know till we've tried it I suppose, so if that happens what are the options? What are the constraints on where the router has to sit - just near enough to the desktop PC to be connected physically? I know she certainly won't want ethernet cable running through the house. Would this be down to one of those Homeplug network extender things (ie using the house mains as a network) with some form of wireless access point downstairs? There's a standard BT phone in the living room if that makes any difference.

Any advice much appreciated!

[OG]

If you get a wi-fi router/modem it can connect to the phone cable at any point (provided you have filters on the other phone sockets). It may be worth putting a phone socket mid-way between the upstairs room and the living room to maximise the signal to each. You will either have to get a wi-fi card or USB wi-fi for the desktop, or get some cat-5 cable to run between the router and the desktop. If you get a type-N wi-fi it may have enough range anyway (provided the laptop has type-N wi-fi).

If the netbook will be XP/Vista, you might want to consider getting a PAYG mobile broadband dongle that she can swap between the desktop and netbook as required. We bought one from 3 a few months ago, £50 for the dongle and then £10 gives 30 days or 1Gb downloads. Since she already has a broadband connection, it's probably not going to be worthwhile in her case, but it's a pretty cheap way to get basic broadband (if she's in a good reception area that is).

[Donwill]

I recently set up a router which is approx 15 Meters and 3 single breeze block walls from the notebook location and the signal doesn't get through, however if I move into an adjacent room say 10 Meters and 2 single breeze block walls it works perfectly. The router is a Siemens Gigaset SE587 unit. I got the info for setting it up from:

I found very informative, I think they have info for other routers also.

Hope this helps

Don

[John Rumm]

Well you can go either way... however I think I would leave the existing kit alone, and add a wireless access point. At least that way you know you have working remote access to at least one machine while you setup/debug the wireless. You can also config the wireless independently of needing to know the ADSL login and password, just in case she is not able to find them.

Something like:

easy to setup and has decent range.

The above units are not bad. I put one in a fairly solid brick built presbytery a while back and could get access is all the rooms through fairly heavy masonry. It even worked in the church adjacent.

However, if you can't get a signal, then a pair of homeplugs would be the best answer - in effect extending the network down to a closer location where you can then fit the WAP.

The only complication you may run into is the existing router may be a single ethernet port device which makes connecting another device difficult without a switch. If this is the case then I would get one of the home plug units with three ports into it:

are other solutions that may work out cheaper and use fewer boxes, however you may find you need to get them all working remotely in one hit.

[TheScullster]

"Lobster" wrote

snip........ Looks like the hardware issues have been covered by others - so I will just add the bit about security. Make sure you enable security on the wireless LAN so your mother's surfing is private.

Phil

[Harry Bloomfield]

Lobster expressed precisely :

You need to get a combined modem/wired/wireless router, I can recommend a Netgear DG834G (V3 I think now) - price £40 to £60. They have a self configuring mode, where you just enter username and password to get it running.

I use the above, which is located in the loft. It serves a large garden and down through two floors to serve all of the house, through brick walls. I don't know about Talktalk, but I would assume there would be no problem using a normal router on it.

The above includes a hardware firewall, but you will need to secure the wireless access - Each wireless card has a MAC address, set the router so that only one(s) you know can use it, then set it up for encryption. If you click on the laptops wireless card, you should be able to find its MAC number. Usefully, you can also change the router and the laptops IP number to something less obvious than the default, making it more difficult to get in.

The router can then just be left on and connected to ADSL 24/7.

[Paul Matthews]

She will need a new router to *replace* the existing modem. It will have a connection to the phone line and use an ethernet connection on the PC. If the PC does not have a LAN card, you will need one of those as well.

Valid concer. Even in the world of professional wifi installation, part of the design process is a "site survey". What that means is that the guys designing the wireless install turn up with a load of kit and try it!

Kind of. In reality that distance is down to the running of cables. If you are happy with cables running around you could put the router in the living room.

General guidance is that the router is best in the master socket, and use the ethernet to get to the PC.

Word I have heard is that the homeplug type stuff is quite good. That would remove the need for wireless.

May shuffle around where you put things - the router and the latop in the living room and wireless to the main PC. May alo be possible to position the wireless router better to get a signal upstairs IYSWIM.

[Adrian C]

If she is happy with TalkTalk (because they may want to extend their contract if you ask for this....) then giving their support team a ring might bag her a shiney new wireless modem/router in the post.

One of their issues looks a bit like this and doubles as a picture frame you can apparently stick a paper photograph in ....

Information on this in the forums at

[Rod]

We have an Apple Airport Extreme (which is relatively expensive). But it seems to work well. Wirelessly, we have two Windows laptops, one Windows desktop and a MacBook - plus a wired printer. And the Airport is very easy to configure (IMHO - of course).

We had to keep modem and router/wireless separate as we are on cable. (The cable modem is supplied by Virgin Media - and we have no choice.) But, given our experience, I think I would choose to have them separate anyway - even if we went for ADSL in future. Nice to be able to keep the issues separated. (If one goes wrong, the reconfiguration/replacement is simpler this way.) It would allow us to place the router in a suitable location which might or might not be near the modem. (Though obviously the router would need to be connected to the modem by wire or Homeplug - or something.)

The Airport also allows us to connect USB devices (drives and printers) to it - which permits sharing. But it can be fussy about which printers it supports.

On the other hand, when we first went wireless we did so with the cheapest available wireless access point and our very old router. Worked fine until the router itself went flaky. I have found Edimax stuff cheap and reliable - and am using an Edimax PCMCIA wireless card in my laptop at this very moment (far better than the one Toshiba built in).

[Bob Minchin]

I can confirm that breeze blocks especially the early 1930s cinder blocks are not at all transparent at WIFI frequencies. My house is 15m long and there is no signal from one end to the other through 3-4 walls. I would strongly advise putting the router in the room where the laptop will be used or at most, the room next door or above, no further away.

Also make sure your router has at least one wired port to ease set up. It is just possible to set a router up over the wireless link but there is 1 way to get it right and 101 ways to get it wrong!! Hopefully the new laptop will have an ethernet port but if not keep the original PC functional to do the set up.

Good Luck

Bob

[Roger Mills]

The only problem with that is that the "existing kit" may well a USB modem rather than an ethernet modem/router - in which case there's nothing to which to connect the access point.

Even if there *is* a non-wireless router already, a new wireless modem/router would probably be cheaper than the access point - simply because they're sold in much larger volumes.

[Rob Nicholson]

Not wishing to put a downer on this at all, as Eee PCs are the best thing since sliced bread (I have one at work for travel) but just double check the screen is big enough before splashing out £250. They are a little on the dinky side...

Rob.

[John Rumm]

True, but the usual TalkTalk modem has both...

Agreed it will cost a bit more doing as I described, however it also buys you a little more flexibility with the sighting of the wireless base. Also, as I alluded to, if I were setting one up remotely with a non technical user, it would be nice to be able to do it with access to their network via a working ADSL connection.

[dom]

I thoroughly recommend that Netgear router. I bought an old one on ebay and upgraded to the latest firmware. Superbly easy to set up, never needs rebooting - just sits there and works. Offers good wireless encryption and a hardware firewall.

The joy of an all-in-one box like this is you'll probably never need to attend to it again in years.

PC's may come and go - and they either connect via an ethernet cable into the back of the Netgear with absolutely no configuration required

- or when using a laptop wirelessly, you need to enter the password for wireless access that you set up inside the Netgear (which you get at via a web interface - usually you just type 192.168.0.1 into your web browser).

You'll just need to glean a very few settings from the existing set-up like the ADSL username and password.

[zaax]

Of a blue peter lashed-up (a couple of baked bean tins) wave guide would solve this problem

[John Miller]

When I set up my wireless router, I subscribed to uk.comp.home-networking and got some really good advice. There are some really knowledgeable people there.

John Miller

[Mark]

Or you can use a another access point as a repeater/range extender.

[Mark]

And use WPA2 if possible. WEP is not adequate IMHO.

[John Rumm]

Yes, that can also work. Requires more configuration and setting up though. Homeplugs tend to just work out of the box.

[Harry Bloomfield]

John Miller expressed precisely :

Equally so - uk.telecom.broadband