OT: VE day warplanes

[The Natural Philosopher]

Yes.

Most of the accidents from these aircaft are caused by them doing things they were not designed to do by pilots who are not familiar with them. That hapens at low levl at shows, not poddling along over the countryside.

These are not 'old aircraft' - they are aircraft whose structural integrity and general condition is way in excess of the standards that were in use at the time they were built.

They are rebuilt and refirbished to exceptional standards by very highly skilled people to very stringent guidelines.

[The Natural Philosopher]

That is unfair. about 2 in 10 years IIRC. Due to silliness at air shows, not poodling around up high.

Ther are far more accidents with general light planes than old warplanes.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Yes. Sadly though the all wood mosquitos fell apart years ago...

If you want to see a really dodgy unstable underpowered old aeroplanes, go to a shuttleworth collection day at Old Warden.

And marvel at the fact that the bristol boxkite and blackburn monoplane, both of which are almost incapable of turning, are currently equipped with about twice the horsepower they would have originally had...and still barely fly. I think thes are the oldest airframes actually still flying.

[The Caretaker]

It's a celebration of what the people who flew them in battle achieved, freedom, and a commemoration of those who died in battle to try and achieve that aim. It has absolutely nothing to do with 'glorifying' war, which is never 'glorious' or 'triumphal', at all.

[The Natural Philosopher]

It may be to you, but it ain't to me.

I just see them and remember how many people died in them, scared witless, and probably burning to death.

In defence of something they probably didn't understand.

The more you study the history of war, the less glorious it seems to be.

VE day is not a celebration of a glorious victory, its a celebration of profound relief on personal survival, and profound sorrow for comrades that did not.

The only upside seems to be the abiding sense of brotherhood left in its survivors.

And some remarkable technologicial gains.

In the decade from 1935 to 1945, the performance of aircraft tripled in almost every respect.

But I still would not wish to make a journey at 30,000 feet in an uninsulated unpressurised barely heated single skin of 1.6mm aluminium powerd by four shatteringly noisy piston engines Lancaster over to germany and back, by night, especially not with everybody shooting at you, and carrying a ton of high explosive.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Funny. I thought that was what security cams and ID cards were all about...

>

[The Natural Philosopher]

My fathers log books reveals only one extremely dangerous sortie doing bombing raids.

After that, he seemed plagued by engine trouble on the way to any heavy flak targets...always make friends with your mechanic, I say...

[s--p--o--n--i--x]

At least one of the planes due to take part in our local display had to pull out.

Apparently the larger WW2 planes have recently been re-classified as commercial airliners meaning much larger insurance premiums are payable.

sponix

[s--p--o--n--i--x]

As opposed to being watched by Blairs cronies..?

;)

[Martin]

I think a 4 valve per cylinder supercharged V12 is quite advanced especially as they will be between 1280bhp and 16nnbhp and racing versions are over

3000bhp from the same 27l lump

[Doctor Evil]

He is clearly not doubting their historical importance and is impressed by them, just the safety aspect of such old planes over built up areas, which is an understandable concern.

_________________________________________ Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server More than 120,000 groups Unlimited download

to open account

[Mike]

Oh yes it does. I used to live near there and there was an average of one crash every eighteen months. Some at shows, some at practice. Not all ended up on the carriageway but some on embankments or the nearby fields still required the M11 to have lanes shut.

[Mike]

They are used in third world countries but most are well past their max flying hours and the airframes will be suffering major fatique. Don't get on one unless you have to.

[Mike]

"nightjar .uk.com>"

I'm not aware of any engine control or monitoring electonics on a Spitfire.

Which those at Duxford take to mean flying past local villages such as Melbourne, Harston and so on BELOW the height of the church steeples !

[The Todal]

The only people who glorify war are those politicians and journalists who have never been to war. Real war, even in Iraq with smart missiles and computer-aided targeting, is a thoroughly messy and disgusting business with lots of hideous sights and sounds, and should only ever be a last possible resort. Our Prime Minister should not only visit wounded servicemen, he should visit Iraqi hospitals too.

I thoroughly recommend the RAF museum at Hendon and the museum at Duxford. The aircraft on display evoke a time when ordinary people were required to summon up every ounce of courage to do their bit for the war effort as part of a team - nowadays, most of us do little more than summon up every ounce of strength to go to work with a heavy cold. There is something uniquely admirable about teamwork during times of crisis, which is probably why so many of us watch soaps about doctors in hospitals. Added to that is the element of risking one's life in combat. Those who took the risks deserve to be admired. Those who cheer from the sidelines and demand that we do it all over again to another country, would do better to be silent.

[Aidan]

Exactly, so the Spitfire should carry on going for many years yet, unlike the average Ford Mondeo which is scrapped when the electronics expire.

[Grant]

Is Coventry really that bad? :)

to Jersey today, the TT races and Le Mans next month.

[The Natural Philosopher]

No, but there are perfectly useable enigine water and oil temperature and oil pressure gauges and rev counters.

Electronic mionitoring is no better than a skilled pilot wo understands his dials.

Those are not counted as conurbations.

I regularly get pairs of military heliciopters, the odd hercules, and various military jets flying over at sub 200 ft.

A few hundred feet away from a radio tower that is 300ft high..I think they use it as a marker..

Not to mention microlights pottering around at similar altitudes. Far more likley to pile in.

Gimme a spitfire ANY day.

[The Natural Philosopher]

And these days they can balance em electronically as well.

I was amazed at how complex and sphisticated even a Hurricane was.

Somehwre ther is a site dedicated to photos of various restorations. Google it and see for yourself.

[Steve Firth]

Tut, and you against the internal combustion engine. Do you even think for a second of how much gas is guzzled by four Merlins on full chat?