OT: Unfranked stamps?

[Mark S.]

Is an unfranked but posted stamp legal tender?

If so is it possible to get money back on them. I could do with "claiming" as I could buy a washing machine with the stamps I have. ;-)

Mark S.

[Andrew Gabriel]

No, and neither is an unused stamp.

[Mark S.]

Bugger. :-(

So how does a postal order work when you receive it with stamps on and then pay it into a current account?

Mark S.

[holkingers]

Wes thinking the same thing - you can add stamps to a postal order to increase the value.

[:::Jerry::::]

Indeed, trying to redeem the value of a used but unfranked stamp would be classed as fraud!

How does a cheque work then, how do bank notes work?...

The paper has no value unless it's presented, in the case of postal orders the use of postal stamps is just proof that the indicated value has been paid IYSWIM.

[Aidan]

If they've been through the post, the fact that they've no visible marking doesn't mean they're unused. I believe the machine leaves some fluorescent marker which may show up under UV light or something like that. I recall someone getting a criminal conviction for re-using a lot of 'unfranked' stamps, 10+ years ago.

[nightjar]

I think the point being made is that 'legal tender' has a very narrow and specialised definition, which has nothing to do with the way you pay for things. The only use for legal tender is when you are settling a debt. If you offer to settle the debt in exactly the right amount of legal tender and the person you owe the debt to refuses payment, you cannot later be sued for non-payment of the debt. In all other cases, payment is a matter of negotiation between the two parties involved. You can offer any form of payment you want and the other person can choose to accept it or choose to reject it, even if what you offer falls within the definition of legal tender.

Colin Bignell

[Andrew Gabriel]

... which is particularly useful in Scotland, where the only legal tender is coins, since the withdrawal of the English £1 note.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Are you saying that other English bank notes weren't legal tender? Never knew that. I'm aware Scottish bank notes never were.

But thought all coins had a limit? To stop someone paying a 1000 quid debt in pennies...

[Andrew Gabriel]

Only English banknotes with face values under £5 are legal tender in Scotland, and there no longer are any (and as you say, Scottish bank notes are not legal tender anywhere). Other current English banknotes are legal tender in any quantity in England and Wales.

That's true in England and Wales. Scotland have a separate law which may or may not be the same, I don't know.

[Mary Fisher]

Not being legal tender doesn't mean that you can't spend them though. If they say "sterling" on them (which all Scottish and Northern Irish banknotes do) you can spend them anywhere in UK.

And I do. £1, £5, £10, £20 ... can you imagine Northern Irish and Scots traders refusing 'English' notes?

Mary

[Dave Plowman (News)]

No. But then it's simply a legal term. A Scottish bank note may not be legal tender, but then neither would be a personal cheque from the Queen.

[Andy Dingley]

I keep my NI notes in a separate wallet and leave them until I'm next back over there. I can spend a Scottish fiver easily enough in SW England but NI money is effectively unpassable around here. The difference between punts (worth more anyway) and sterling never really made it through to shop assistants. I'm fed up of explaining it to store detectives, particularly the one in WH Smiths who needed to "confiscate" it as "evidence". Their corporate jobsworths were annoyingly unapologetic too.

After the big Belfast bank robbery, forget it.

[Andrew Gabriel]

Oh, sure. You could buy a car with a bag full of dirty nickers if you can find a salesman who will take them, but they aren't legal tender either.

[Mary Fisher]

That's what I was saying, in a pragmatic way. Some people think that if something is not 'legal tender' then you can't spend it.

Nor even one from me.

Mary

[Mary Fisher]

I haven't had a problem down your way ...

Huh?

Euros now.

Well, as I say, my experience has been different from yours. Perhaps I have a more honest face :-)

Mary

[Mary Fisher]

Eh?

[Owain]

That's only "legal tender" using the English definition. Scottish law has a more relaxed definition, of anything customarily used to settle a debt. A council refused to accept Scottish bank notes in payment for council tax and was told not to be so silly by the sheriff.

I think they were for a short while during the War, because of the shortage of paper for printing money.

Coins below £1 are limited, but £1 coins are legal tender in unlimited quantities.

Owain

[Andrew Gabriel]

Actually, that's the Scottish definition. The English definition (which doesn't apply in Scotland) is that all current notes up to £50 are legal tender in any quantity. (Some higher value notes are used inside and between banks, but have no value outside a bank and aren't legal tender.)

Good.

[Rusty]

This is the case I believe. The sorting machines use invisible UV markers for routing though these may be on the envelope rather than the stamp itself. Not sure at what stage the stamp would be visibly franked .