OT The EU again

[harry]

[Nightjar]

How is the EU responsible for the UK Government breaking its agreement?

Colin Bignell

[Jethro_uk]

"Look what you made me do ....."

[The Natural Philosopher]

because it is an agreement with the EU. Or rather its not, its something the EU has decided on its own, and decided to impose on all member states that are worth suing.

[Nightjar]

It was an agreement between the member states, which includes the UK. There was a time and place to seek the lower rate of VAT on energy saving measures, but, having accepted the provisions, the UK is not being forced to ignore them by the EU. Hence, it is the UK that is at fault, not the EU.

Colin Bignell

[The Natural Philosopher]

Right so why cant the government do what governments are supposed to do? That is set a tax regime that achieves the particular targets it decides the nation needs.

What you are saying is that we cannot do anything as a nation without EU approval,. because effectively, we aren't a nation any more.

I cant think of a better reason to vote UKIP than that, frankly.

[Java Jive]

Whether or not we are members of the EU, we would still be bound by similar international agreements. Prior to becoming members of the EU, we were bound by various trade agreements with Commonwealth countries. When we joined the EU, then called the Common Market, we began a process of swapping one set of trade agreements for another.

As sales taxes affect the sales and therefore the trade in goods, it's not surprising that the CM/EU tried/s to ensure that the playing field is level for all concerned. Hence on joining we also replaced our own former system of Purchase Tax with the European VAT system.

We entered into these agreements voluntarily as a result of a nationwide referendum at the time, and are bound both by the result of that and by the same laws that we have passed as any other country within the EU. If we break those laws, we are at fault.

We haven't been since WW2 - we've only in the last decade or so paid off the last of our wartime debts to the US. The world is now too interlinked and complicated for a single, relatively small nation to punch much above its weight. Get used to it, and be thankful that to an extent we can still punch a little above ours.

I can't think of a better reason not to vote UKIP than Little Englanders like you are apparently recommending it.

[Bill Wright]

That's a silly and meaningless riposte.

Bill

[Java Jive]

[Another John]

I predict that UKIP will show a slight bump in their popularity at the next election, and then soon afterwards evaporate into thin air, as their supporters, with accelerating frequency, achieve their three-score-years-and-ten.

Java Jive's first response in this discussion was a good'un.

J.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Well if Java Jive is against it, there's got to be a lot in it worth considering.

I wonder if he has a Che Guevara T-short?

And buys the Socialist Wurkah?

[Tim Streater]

Woss this? Run out of ideas so you have to stoop to ad hominem? You astonish me.

[Tim Streater]

These are *Treaties*, not laws, and any Treaty can be abrogated. The relevant laws are those we passed ourselves, in Parliament. And it is still the case that any EU Directive has no effect until *our* Parliament has passed the relevant legislation, which then applies to this country only.

[Steve Firth]

He's a massive hypocrite - he whines about ad hominem, but "Java Jive" is always first with it.

[The Natural Philosopher]

because he's a dedicated follower of fashion?

I imagine the pair of you resemble Jedward in every respect.

[Java Jive]

[Java Jive]

But we'd be very unwise to do so. We have much more influence in the world as part of the EU than we ever would isolated and outside it.

Which is saying in a different way exactly what I said above! Your point is?

[Java Jive]

Uproarious! Try telling that to my ex-wife and many others that have known me! I suspect that there is barely another human being in the western world who cares less for fashion than myself. In fact, I have something of an established reputation exactly to the contrary.

I'm so unfashionable that I have no idea who Jedward is, so that presumed attempted insult is totally lost on me.

[Steve Firth]

Firstly are you incapable of learning by observation? Your top posting is both stupid and anti-social. Even young children manage to learn how to reply to a Usenet post.

Secondly, you claimed to have kill-filed me. So your reply indicates that you are a liar.

Thirdly your statement is incorrect, a lie in fact. You are a prolific ad hominist. Since hypocrisy always seems to characterise your posts you constantly whine about others.

And he's right you typify the green f****it mentality for whom emotion and dogma supplant science, mathematics and engineering.

[Java Jive]

Unnecessarily so.

Your rearrangement was only necessary because you didn't bother to trim what was superfluous, because anyone could read it in the thread history above. This and your job's worth observations on my posting style made your post 13 lines unnecessarily long, and bottom-posting it made it unnecessarily cumbersome and unergonomic to read in a modern newsreader.

I have kill-filed you, it's just that for other reasons my filters are disabled for the moment.

No, I only do it to those who habitually do it to others - which description includes both TNP and yourself. I think's it's healthy that now and then you are reminded of what your own medicine tastes like.

And who's whining now?! Bah! Pots and kettles!

It's strange isn't it? The people who make such claims, such as TNP and yourself, are always the FIRST to use ad hominem and the LAST to actually use science, mathematics and engineering! You are welcome to go back and find one to prove me wrong, but OOTTOMH I cannot recall a single scientifically useful link that you have ever contributed to discussion. At least with TNP I can remember one or two - it's a drop in the ocean compared with what his unjustified and/or exaggerated claims have often required, but at least it's one or two better than zilch.