OT the cost of immigration

[Capitol]

No wonder there is no recovery.

[harry]

The remainders don't like to add these costs into the cost of immigration. We will be a third world country in ten years if we don't get out of the EUSSR looney bin.

[Clive Page]

What makes you think that things will be any different if we leave the EU? The best we might hope for is an arrangement similar to those of Norway and Switzerland: they pay a fee to participate in the EU trading zone not far different per head from what the UK pays at present, and part of the price of the trade agreement is that they have had to agree to the free movement of EU citizens. So no difference there. In fact the main difference is that Norway and Switzerland have no votes or influence in EU decision-making. This seems to me the worst of both worlds.

[Jack Brown]

But that isnt what happens with all of the USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Iceland, China, Japan, etc etc etc.

Then you need to get your seems machinery seen to.

[Dan S. MacAbre]

Maybe Norway didn't need much persuading on the immigration issue. Maybe they like it, and didn't have to be forced to accept it at all.

[The Natural Philosopher]

The standard of living in both countries is rather higher than the rest of the EU, although Norway's socialist dream is foundering on the rocks of no more North Sea Oil.

Of course Britain's influence on the EU has been the square root of Sweet Fanny Adams, as evinced by 'Dangerous Dave's' recent fiasco, in which even the the concessions he claimed he had won were ruled *ultra vires* by the European legislature.

Leaving e EU is not an instant solution to anything, but it is the first step in a road that leads to a life better suited for the nature of the inhabitants of Britain, their geography and their cultural history.

Canada, Australia & New Zealand all have less populations than the UK, and yet they do not find it necessary to be part of the EU.

I do wonder where you inners get your logic from. Presumably the overpaid pens of the EU's public relations department - the only part of that sprawling bureaucracy that actually seems to work.

[charles]

funnily enough, none of them are in Europe. They have joineed as trading partners with other counties in theri own part of the world.

[Jack Brown]

Yes, that is pretty clear, but they appear to be changing their mind on that now.

Less clear that Switzerland were anything like as keen on immigration, they had in fact been much more restrictive on that than most except Japan.

[Jack Brown]

Some foundering. They are doing a lot better than Britain essentially because they chose to go the socialist route with their oil and gas and power generation.

They didn?t get asked if they wanted to be part of that.

Or they could have worked it out for themselves, just like you did your line.

[Dan S. MacAbre]

I'd be interested to see the deal that Switzerland had to make. I can't believe they have to accept so many. I'd be off there tomorrow if they did :-)

[dennis]

Well that's cr@p as usual. Britain was instrumental in the human rights in Europe so much so that they wouldn't have happened if the UK hadn't started the process. The same human rights that you think cause all the problems and want us to reject.

Just because your life is a failure doesn't mean the EU caused it or that leaving the EU will fix it!

[The Natural Philosopher]

Well that's cr@p as usual. The European Court of Human Rights and the Council of Europe have nothing whatever to do legally with the EU.

In fact you exactly show the difference between stiff that Britain did by consensus...

..And the EU, which imposes, seeks not consensus and does harm

Were nothing to do woithet EU.

Like most dim 'inners' you confuse the EU, with the other international (co-operative) institutions like NATO, the Council of Europe, and indeed the races that comprise Europe.

Brexit dies not mean 'leaving Europe' 'Closing our doors to Europeans' 'abandoning the Council of Europe' 'Resigning our place in NATO' 'severing ties with Airbus industries' .

It just means not (having to be) bound by the EU and its political project.

Just because your life would be a failure if we left the EU...and is a failure in the sense that you don't even understand what being in the EU means, let alone what leaving it would...

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Actually started by Churchill, IIRC.

The only rights the likes of Turnip believes in is his right to publish lies.

You may just have hit the nail on the head.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

That's what you'd have us believe. That we can still trade with Europe as before - but without any other commitments. And have conveniently ignored that no other country has achieved this with the EU. Ie, having one's cake and eating it.

Sensible people might think this gamble not worth taking.

[TimW]

If it was true that immigration costs a lot then Germany would be the poorest country in the EU, and the USA would be an economic basket case.

TW

[The Natural Philosopher]

How economical with the truth!

There is a world of difference between controlled and uncontrolled immigration, and indeed uncontrolled US immigration is lowering the standard of living there.

[Andrew]

Nor is Turkey, but it and Saudi are funding the Syrian civil war, and now we know why. Saudi is shit scared that Iran will cut off the sea route for its oil exports and needs an overland pipeline route to Turkey. Turkey wants to join the EU so it is flooding Greece with migrants so it can apply pressure on Germany.

[Andrew]

there are only 3 million people in Norway. Prior to North Sea oil it was a fairly poor backwater, with no industrial legacy like Britain does. Much of its electricity is provided by hydro power anyway. Consequently the oil wealth was far in excess of what they needed to keep the population comfortable and that is why they have saved so much of it.

Britain had a 200 year legacy of industrial production, much of it outdated, in decline, post-empire and strangled by over-powerful trades unions. Our oil wealth was used to drag Britain out of those dark ages, and it came in the nick of time. Money well spent.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

You *think* Turkey is enticing all those refugees from Syria etc to come to it, do you?

[Capitol]

Japan does not seem to be likely to join China!