OT - Programming Languages

I know this is OT but I rather suspect that some of you will be able to help.

Boy1 (13) is interested in learning how to write code and so I would like to set him up with a toolkit for his PC (Windows) unfortunately my programming days are somewhat in the past and restricted to MUMPS which was archaic even back then. Has anyone any suggestions for a suitable platform? As ever the cheaper the better.

Cheers

Mark

Reply to
Ferretygubbins
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Reply to
dennis

Blimey. The first person I've ever "met" who knows what MUMPS is. I was a MUMPS programmer for several years in the late 70s.

I'd go for Python. Starting here;

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Reply to
Huge

OK - yes it is very good, but what's he going to do with it?

Reply to
Fredxxx

What "code" does he have in mind?

It take a lot of time and experience to be able to write meaningful games, such that he might get disheartened.

Personally, I would suggest he could get into making websites and move onto scripting etc when he's mastered noddy HTML.

Reply to
Fredxxx

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then.

Reply to
dennis

Have a look at Lazerus its an open source clone of Ebarcadero's[1] Delphi development environment.

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It gives you all the tools in one place, a proper integrated development environment, code editor, object inspector, drag and drop interface building, debugger etc. The language is based on a greatly extended object Pascal with a very elegant class library based on the original Borland VCL (designed by Anders Hejlsberg who was later poached by MS to develop C#)

[1] they bought Borland's software tools business
Reply to
John Rumm

For an easy start, aimed at people of his age, try Greenfoot:

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Simple games in Java (not a lot of experience needed).

Then move on to BlueJ:

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(the developers are on my corridor at work). Used for teaching all over the world.

Reply to
Bob Eager

( Forth I go for would.)

." Cheers"

Reply to
Syd Rumpo

As well as python, Scratch is popular especially on Raspberry Pi

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Owain

Reply to
spuorgelgoog

Or for even easier, look at "scratch"

Reply to
John Rumm

The big drawback I found when I tried to get into Python was that everything non-trivial needed one to find the right class to add to the basic language. On the one hand, it was nice to have classes already written to do more complex things, on the other hand it's not easy for a beginner in a particular language to judge which one of (perhaps) a multitude of extension packages best suits a job.

I think I'd start with some simpler less extensible language where there's a better chance of getting to grips with a much smaller range of possible features.

Reply to
Jeremy Nicoll - news posts

How good is the lad at maths? That strongly colours the best answer...

I agree that for a beginner one of the Pascal based languages is a good bet and that Delphi had a cute development environment.

Another now obscure related language with similar though more minimalist tendencies are Wirths later Modula2 and Oberon languages. Several free compilers are available of which XDS is probably the best and it comes with a few code examples that show what it can do.

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Toy programming projects he can easily do in the VBA project side of Office applications like Excel or shudder Word.

MS offer free versions of their compilers for download but I think the learning curve is far too steep for most people to make any progress without an experienced coach or teacher to hand.

Reply to
Martin Brown

Only daughters are numbered, boys have names. B-)

Code to do what? Writing a game that is much above Pong or Breakout takes a lot of effort. "Hello World" gets boring after a while. There has to be an itch that needs to scratched.

Hum, personally I'm not keen on Python, it relies on correct and non mixed (tab/space) indentation to run and when it doesn't it doesn't, in my experience, tell you that it's upset about the indentation, it just weird things (cause code is being run in an unexpected order) or falls over with an error "that can't happen", except when the code is running in an unexpected order.

Starting with HTML/CSS and moving on to PHP might be good place as you get results straight away. If he has a Smartphone developing something for that should give good rewards, the tools for Android are free, donno about iOS.

I'd avoid any of the "teaching" languages, why learn something that isn't used in the real world? It might give a grounding in the basic way that code is structured but you can get that from any more main stream languages with a decent "Beginers Guide to ..." book or online tutorial.

Reply to
Dave Liquorice

Yep, that's my experience, too.

Unless you've actually got a problem that needs to be solved, or you're some kind of wierdo who actually likes figuring code syntax out, you'll never get beyond "Hello World". Which is why I never have.

Reply to
Adrian

Forget Windows and get a Raspberry Pi. Cheap, much more interesting and vast amount of support material. You also get the ability to easily make things happen outside the computer - like controlling lights, motors, sensing things etc.

Reply to
Peter Parry

Yes. In my case it's been an email client.

For my email client I've had, for OS X, Win7, and Linux, to make a double-clickable program that can if required put up an error message in a pane and run a PHP script that does the real startup work.

I started on this under OS X using AppleScript which I found tedious but doable with a bit of googling.

I was expecting that it would be easier using Visual Basic under Win7 - no, it was harder. But hardest of all was Python under Linux. I ended up just cutting and pasting code until it worked, with no particular understanding of what I was doing, or what any of it was supposed to mean.

All good advice, IMO.

Reply to
Tim Streater

Apparently he has been working on Scratch at school and has found it easy. He's decided to give Greenfoot a go which is a result as it should keep him quiet during a snow day.

Thanks to everyone for the advice - if this shows any sign of being more than a passing fad he may be getting a Raspberry Pi for his birthday.

Cheers

Reply to
Ferretygubbins

Perl.

Looks like C, low overhead, do a lot without any modules and the basic core of it's syntax is very similar to C, PHP and Java so, like Latin it is both not quite dead, and a very useful thing to learn as it makes learning other languages easier.

Reply to
Tim Watts

In MSAccess circa 2000, I was grateful for the macro record facility. Seeing how the actions you want to automate translate into code, which you can then tweak, made the whole thing more accessible for a beginner.

Reply to
stuart noble

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