OT Osbournes figures.

[Capitol]

I did a quick analysis of the figures published today and came to the conclusion that they do not include a number of costs which are incurred by not leaving the EU.

1) The cost of adding 5M(minimum) more low paid immigrants to the NHS is in the region of 12B 2) The cost of rental housing for households will rise by 15Bn. Caused by supply and demand. 3)The cost of more unemployed Brits will be in the region of 10Bn. 4) The cost of Brussels will rise to 20Bn. 5) The cost of not getting rid of VAT and replacing it with a sales tax is 2Bn.

The minimum cost of NOT leaving the EU is over 2K per household.

I have not included EU regulation costs which are in excess of 88Bn

If these are included, the cost per household approaches 7K.

I'm sure others can think of some more costs which I have missed.

[Brian Gaff]

Unfortunately the whole thing in either case is one of those famous unknown unknowns we have heard about. On balance its actually going to be more useful to stay in, as if the eu goes more extreme after we leave, we would have no way of influencing it, but from inside we might. In my view its impossible with any certainty to know what the future is going to be like, so this vote is a little bit like tossing a coin. Brian

[Tim Streater]

Give over Brian. If we are outside we'd have no need to influence it, and if we are inside we'd have no way to influence it.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

I'm sure others can speculate more wildly too. But then they'd be even more foolish.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer can't even get figures even vaguely right when predicting just a few months. With all the civil service facilities behind him. Yet we are expected to believe all these predictions from the 'outers' like Boris and crew who don't even know the cost of a pint of milk.

[Chris Hogg]

The Chancellor of the Exchequer can't even get figures even vaguely right when predicting just a few months. With all the civil service facilities behind him. Yet we are expected to believe all these predictions from the 'inners' like Dave and crew who don't even know the cost of a pint of milk.

Let's face it, the economic arguments can be made both ways, they're all pretty wild speculation anyway, so base your decision on things more tangible, like sovereignty and democracy, things we've had in the UK for many hundreds of years, but are novel to most EU countries.

[fred]

Yes, better off inside the tent pissing out than outside the tent pissing in.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Anywhere between about 25p when bought in a supermarket to 80p in some small stores. Although those are not necessarily for just one pint - but the price is per pint.

But then I'm not surprised you have to ask.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

No speculation about the past. Those figures are easy enough to find - although the outers seem to have great difficulty doing the sums.

Now move on to human rights. Far more important to the average person than 'sovereignty' which means absolutely f**k all, unless you're the queen.

For a country that really does have 'sovereignty' you need to look at the likes of North Korea. But perhaps that's what you want.

[Chris Hogg]

Very egocentric I'm sure. You're not the only Dave in the world!

I didn't.

[Chris Hogg]

A poor example. Paradoxically one of the few people who isn't sovereign: she does what she's told, sorry, 'advised', by her ministers, who ATM do what they're told by Brussels.

It's certainly the way the EU is heading.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Depends on what direction the wind is blowing.

Frankly if the rest if the EU is in the tent, and the wind is blowing in the door, I know where I'd rather be.

[harry]

Osbourne is a lying toad.

He can't get his projections right for a year never mind five years.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Who was it that said the only reasons the outers give are nonsense?

[Chris Hogg]

A silly remark. Must have been you.

[Tim Streater]

Most people don't know the cost of a pint of milk. I don't as I buy

4-pintas, which typically cost a quid.

[Huge]

Ditto, and my wife does the shopping, so I have no idea what most groceries cost.

[News]

I don't think actually shopping does much to help, these days. At one time, everything in a supermarket had a little self adhesive price tags. One of my schoolboy jobs was attaching the price labels. Today, very few items have a price label, just a bar code. Yes, everything is (or should be) marked on the edge of the shelf, but I just don't retain the price like I used to. I do a lot of our shopping, yet could not now quote the price of even the basics like milk, sugar or butter. I know a few prices, but not the range I once knew.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

So you aren't capable of dividing by 4?

[Tim Streater]

More importantly, I'm clever enough to know that the result doesn't tell me what it would cost to pick up a one-pint plastic milk bottle from the shelf above.

You should get out more, Dave.

[GB]

I'm embarrassed to say that I think we pay around £1 for a bottle of milk, but I don't know how much it contains. :)

Possibly 2 litres. Converting that accurately to pints is not straightforward without a calculator.