OT No references...

Maybe a bit off topic for this group, but you guys seem to give good advice on a whole range of stuff...

In 2009 I was made redundant, the company closed down completely, I had only been there a few years but nevertheless got a small redundancy payment.

I decided to start my own business as a sole trader building and repairing computers shortly after. The business went OK for a while, even though I wasn't making the same as I was in my employment, it was enough to live on. This past year though, the work has about dried up, and I can no longer take any money out of the business, have been relying on savings built up over the years, so I have recently decided to shelve the business and get back into employment.

However, one problem is references. Many employers ask for a reference from your last employer, and since I am my own boss, I can't give myself a reference. Nor can I ask my previous employer, the company has disappeared without trace.

This leaves me with having to go back to the job I left in 2006, which is only a HR reference "X worked here between 'dates' as anyone who I worked with has now left, and even further back, to 2004, where the guy who was my boss still works there, remembers me well and is happy to sing my praises when asked.

I do feel that this has put me at somewhat of a disadvantage though, because I am not having any great success with applications and at interviews, it's been hinted that its a problem that my references aren't very recent and even implied that I didn't have much in the way of recent activity that could be accounted for, it seems I may as well be putting 'unemployed

2009-2012' instead of 'self-employed 2009-2012'

Any constructive advice?

Reply to
computerguy
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- get your accountant to write a testimonial confirming you were self- employed for that period

- get references from a couple of satisfied customers

- do some voluntary work for a few hours a week, ideally in an area which might be related to what you're looking for work in

Owain

Reply to
Owain

I'd offer the records from your business. Something as simple as a file of your bills would show the number of jobs you had done, and their typical size. Any "Thank you" letters would be good. Your tax returns are reasonable proof of income.

If I was recruiting, I would regard a reasonably tidy set of books as really good evidence of your technical competence, customer skills, and ability to manage the necessary paperwork.

It doesn't even have to be anally neat: just "fit for purpose". I imagine you have computer records, not just hand-written bills in a reporter's notebook.

Explain the situation to the contact person, ask them what they would like to see. If you had any "big customers" perhaps one of them would write you a reference? (I believe some of the "high street" shops farm out this sort of work to freelances).

Reply to
newshound

These days, it would be rare to get more in a reference than confirmation that a person worked in a particular place between certain dates. If a new employee did not live up to the expectations raised by a reference from a former employer, the new employer could have a case for damages against the company giving the reference. If the line of work for which you are applying is one that is rapidly changing, it could be that the problem is more your lack of recent experience in the field, rather than a lack of recent references.

Colin Bignell

Reply to
Nightjar

This amused/annoyed me about the company I currently work for. I recently applied for internal promotion. I've been with the company in my present position for 11 years. They wanted a reference from my previous employer to "help in considering my application". My previous employers no longer exist in that form, and my immediate boss there retired some years ago.

I didn't get the job,nor did the other applicants, and the job was, during the appointment process, declared a non-job, as it has been absorbed by a re-organisation in the office.

Reply to
John Williamson

Do you have anyone who would give more of a personal reference?

Thinking you might be able to use that - and explain if you get selected.

Reply to
polygonum

In message , computerguy writes

Of course you can, just be honest and objective

When I Left Siemens in Fuerth, my boss told me to go away and write my own reference. I never realised how difficult it would be to do.

You could always ask selected customers to add comments

Reply to
geoff

Fill in the boxes with the name of your friendly accountant/lawyer/milkman, and tell them what to say as and when the recruiters come a-calling. If they ever do, at least at that point they're listening to English and your referee can give them the appropriate details, and you've got over the computer-says-no hurdle. I suspect the recruiters are unlikely to notice the referee is XYZ Accountancy Ltd instead of ABC Computers plc.

Theo

Reply to
Theo Markettos

Yeah they do that because recruiters are worthless specimens and the harvest your referees then call them to try to sell them some bodies. Don't play the game. Don't fill In the stupid form, send a CV and under referees state that references will only be provided once a job offer has been made.

If the recruiter won't accept that response apply elsewhere - because that recruiter is not trying to fill a post.

Your posts here suggest that you may be a little desperate to get work. Don't let that make you desperate to ignore common sense. Since you have run a business why not consider short term contracts? Plenty of work around, decent pay rates and you get cash in hand faster than if you go for " permanent" employment.

Reply to
Steve Firth

How about getting references/testimonials from some of your satisfied customer(s)? Not the real thing I know but better than nothing.

Reply to
harry

If we all did volunteer work instead of the other kind, the world would be a much better place. Unfortunately it isn't so giving your services free is about as useful overall as monopolies offering the minimum wage for minimum hours and offshoreing everything else.

Reply to
Weatherlawyer

I'd regard the self employment period as a great asset. It shows a level of understanding of work & business, and constructiveness, that people don't get by being an employee. The question is how to sell that to an employee :)

NT

Reply to
meow2222

Doing some voluntary work is an easy way of getting a 'work-related' reference when you're not in work, which was the problem being discussed.

Owain

Reply to
Owain

Assuming that you can get work related voluntary work.

I've been trying for the past three years and the only things available are being a lackey and the reference on offer is "Timothy turned upon time and diligently did all the shitty jobs we asked him to do".

That's not to say that I'm not prepared to give my time this way for a cause that I believe in, but as a reference filler it's a complete WOT

tim

Reply to
tim.....

That's really all most employers expect from a reference.

Owain

Reply to
Owain

Over the past several years I have contributed as a volunteer to an organisation. But this has been entirely on-line - providing information, support and help to people. If I asked one of the top dogs, I am sure they would give me a reference on that basis. It would have nothing to do with time or shitty jobs. Rather more like - "Writes helpful blogs, answers questions accurately, doesn't give out bad information. Not too bad at handling awkward situations."

Anyone who is willing and able to put the research effort in that I do could achieve the same.

I do not do this for any reason other than belief in my "cause", desire to help and the good feeling that at least some people benefit some of the time. And I have not yet been asked to back anything up in an interview where any of this has been mentioned.

Reply to
polygonum

In message , tim..... writes

That's about all you get on a standard reference because you can be sued by the applicant if you give a bad reference and sued by the employer if you give an over complimentary one.

It's a good CV filler for school/university leavers. It say you've done something rather than sit on your arse all day moaning about not having a job. As we used to say when I was in recruitment It's easy to get a job when you're in a job.

Reply to
bert

But a "standard" reference will be relevant to my "day job".

Telling a prospective employer in my professional capacity, that I turned up on time when on car park (/catering outlet) duty at the local charity event is worthless IMHO.

tim

Reply to
tim.....

I think that you got lucky.

whenever I apply for a volunteer role that requires this type of help I have always get one of two responses.

1) oh we don't actually want anybody to help with that we put it in just in case

or

2) we really wanted help from someone who has done the exact thing before, and it just happens that we have found someone who has

tim

Reply to
tim.....

In message , tim..... writes

But that's about all you will get on any reference for the reasons I have stated. Been like that for years. All it is worth is confirmation that you were doing the job you have claimed you have done. It is up to the prospective employer to assess your competence and suitability for the work in mind - but unfortunately most HR departments have delegated this activity to a computer.

As for recruitment agencies, well as we used to say, they're like estate agents but without the ethics.

Reply to
bert

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