OT - Monitors - TFT v. CRT

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*grin*
Those are analysts...
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"The road to Paradise is through Intercourse."
[email me at huge [at] huge [dot] org [dot] uk]
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writes:

Didn't they just say "I'll have 'em all, and whilst you're at it can you just adjust my machine(s) and apps so that I can have them all on different screens simultaneously"???
-- Richard Sampson
email me at richard at olifant d-ot co do-t uk
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We replaced my partner's CRT monitor with a TFT because I could see the flicker and although he couldn't he was suffering rather badly with eyestrain and headaches. Like yours, this wasn't a cheap, nasty CRT - computers are how we make a living so we don't cut corners on quality.
The TFT did cure the eyestrain and the headaches but the cat was very annoyed as she used to nap on that monitor. His Nibs doesn't have any complaints.
Juliette
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nowt

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says...

The Health & Safety Executive publication I checked at the time claimed that, with CRTs, flicker was considered to be unavoidable for about 5% of the population.

I would probably have built her a shelf with an electrically heated pad on it instead.
Colin Bignell
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Juliette <> wrote

Quality CRT's can go up to 85MHz refresh rate, I have no discernable flicker on mine.

I'm on a Sun 21" Re-badged Sony Trinitron

I've used both, but i'm staying on a decent CRT for the moment, until we can get bigger TFT screens.
Cheers,
Paul.
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I find 85Hz an absolute minimum. My eyes much prefer 100Hz or 120Hz. 75Hz is very noticeable. 60Hz is like a power drill in my face.
Christian.
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Zymurgy wrote:

85MHz - now that I would have to see ;-) With a vertical resolution of say 1200 lines that would need a line rate in excess of 102GHz! Might have some interesting X-Ray emmision problems as well!
A top end CRT will do say 150Hz vertical refresh... with a line rate of no more than a few hundred KHz
A good proportion of people will see no flicker at a vertical refresh of 72Hz or better on a small ish screen, most are happy by 85Hz or more on screens upto 21"
(bigger screens are more of a problem because you see more of them in your peripheral vision which is far more sensitve to movement (and hence flicker) than your main field of view)
--
Cheers,

John.

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John Rumm <> wrote

:-) I spotted my little error after I posted, seems you did too ;-)
Humble Hertz are so quaint in todays computing world
Cheers,
Paul.
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On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 00:01:14 +0000, Grunff wrote:

Nope, I look on and off to see how LCDs are getting on. The viewing angle seems to be almost sorted out (now on some models). This thread has highlighted colour rendition not paid much attention to that in the past but if the damn thing changes colour as you move your head it's useless IMHO. I've yet to see one that has a decent quality text display, pixels are generally to big so you end up with jaggies (maybe the shops don't run them at their native resolution?). I don't like the lag. Power consumption, they are still remarkably greedy and don't have built in PSUs. Yet another brick to hide... LCD costs significantly more.
I'm not a "power user" of display technology, I run at 1024x768 85Hz on a bog standard CRT (iiyama Vision Master 1402 (aka LS702U)) and don't play games but I have yet to see an LCD screen that I could sit in front of without getting annoyed by some aspect of it. So I'll be sticking with CRT for the time being.
--
Cheers snipped-for-privacy@howhill.com
Dave. pam is missing e-mail
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Yup. The day they turn up in TV vision control rooms they'll be worth considering.
--
*Gaffer tape - The Force, light and dark sides - holds the universe together*

Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@argonet.co.uk London SW 12
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wrote:

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Chris Oates wrote:

I could live with the odd dead pixel (I have one on my laptop - it's like a fried to me) if all else was equal. But it's not.
--
Grunff


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I guess I could possibly live with a dead pixel - but what I wouldn't want is a pixel which was constantly on. I've seen these any they're infinitely annoying. A green little dot in the same place on the screen whatever is on it. Annoyingly retailers apparently have a certain number of pixels which are allowed to fail yet still be acceptable. If I ever got a TFT display and had one fixed constantly on, I'd return it. Dead (off) pixel I'd still try and return it - but may well not kick up a huge fuss if they didn't allow me to return it.
D
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On Wed, 17 Dec 2003 11:41:57 -0000, "David Hearn"

The "annoying" retailer near me has a sign up at the checkout pointing out that TFT screens come in different grades. Only the highest, and most expensive, grades are free of all pixel defects. I think these are typically bought for uses like checking X-rays or other medical scans. Retailers are in the lower-grade market where you may be lucky, may not.
--
Give me patience! RIGHT NOW!

Mail john rather than nospam...
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"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message

Well I bought a Dell 'UltraSharp' 1800FP (18in. 1280x1024, DVI i/p) earlier this year and it's pretty good. One early observation was that text displays looked a bit fuzzy, rather like a CRT with poor colour convergence, whilst graphics were pixel-perfect. I eventually discovered a display setting in Win-XP (display properties, appearance, effects, "use the following method to smooth edges of screen fonts") which, when changed from "cleartype" to "normal", improved things dramatically. So I'll pass this on as a tip: turn ClearType off, it doesn't help.

Not noticeable on this one, but I don't do games.

Not. I measured 42W for a typical screen, 50W flat out white, 2W in powersave, and 1.5W when "off".

This one does. Standard IEC mains connector on the underside of the housing behind the screen: very neat.

But becoming competitive with high-quality CRTs, perhaps. The display quality of cheap CRTs seems to be getting worse - as more cost reductions are implemented, no doubt.
--
Andy



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Andy Wade wrote:

Clear type uses so called "sub pixel anti aliasing" - the idea being with a LCD you can control the individual pixels with accuracy, and hence you can position 1/3rd pixels to give you a smoother edge. It requires that the monitor has the same ordering of RGB elements in each pixel that the software is expecting - if you get a monitor with a different order then you get the colour fringe effect.

Most I have seen these days have built in PSU
--
Cheers,

John.

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Microsoft also have a web-based tool that allows you to configure ClearType to change how it displays it. Basically you pick the text that is clearest for you and then Windows will use that setting rather than the default. I'd really suggest you give it a go and see what you think once its been tuned.
http://www.microsoft.com/typography/cleartype/tuner/1.htm
D
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On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 22:05:16 -0000, Andy Wade wrote:

42W is "still remarkably greedy" in my book. This 17" iiyama CRT is taking around 60W not a great deal of difference.
--
Cheers snipped-for-privacy@howhill.com
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Dave Liquorice wrote:

But really, is 40W or thereabouts worth worrying about when your PC is eating a couple of hundred?
--
Grunff


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On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 01:13:49 +0000, Grunff wrote:

40W for 24/7 is around a unit/day or about 22/year...
Well the PC is going to be on regardless, now I could possibly tolerate my percieved short comings of an LCD display if it offered a decent power saving over a CRT but they don't.
Anyway my PC doesn't take a couple of hundred. It takes around 100 mostly for the CPU, though the video card must take a bit has it runs at 60C with a fan...
It's not a empty box either, 1GHz Athlon, Ultra 160 SCSI controller, SCSI CD-RW, SCSI 18G HD, 2 Network Cards, 1 ISDN card, 1 dual port serial, 1 4xAGP video, 256M of memory (I think). Plus all the normal on board stuff, floppy, IDE, 2 USB, 2 serial, 1 parallel.
--
Cheers snipped-for-privacy@howhill.com
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