OT Mad old woman syndrome and bird flu

Just heard on the news that bird flu virus is spread by bird faeces (unlike say Foot n Mouth). The old woman who lives next door to us while apparently mentally with-it and certainly physically so, insists of putting out vast amount of bird seed (continuous feeders), 1/2 coconuts, seed-ball (several of those). Thanks to this over-plentiful supply we actually have FLOCKS of sparrows in our and neighbouring hedges, and dozens of pigeons who feed on the seed the sparrows throw out of the feeders. The bird mess in *her* garden is quite disgusting and we get our 'share' due to this. In the light of the bird flu possibility, is this now a public health risk. (ie should I go and *try* to explain to her this much food is not a good idea).

We have had yet another circular from the council asking people NOT to feed pigeons. She clearly thinks it doesn't apply to her.

Reply to
dave
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Buy a cat. The birds will soon go away.

sponix

Reply to
Sponix

Its illegal to feed pigeons (common birds in flocks)in a built up area.

-- Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite

Reply to
The3rd Earl Of Derby

Lucky you - they're on the decline nationally.

Don't you provide little avian toilets?

It's not a risk.

That last has nothing to do with avian influenza.

The virus is spread by migrating birds - your sparrows come from abroad then?

But don't worry, you're in no danger as long as you don't handle the birds.

If you want to know more ask on sci.agriculture.poultry. Seriously.

Mary who keeps hens

Reply to
Mary Fisher

Buy an airgun, shoot the pigeons, follow the instructions at:

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Reply to
Chris Bacon

What's the risk if a sneezy pidgeon or coughy swan dumps on your bald pate?.

john2

Reply to
john2

And the local rat population and quite a few fungal spores too no doubt.

Of course it's a bloody risk. We have swans in a pool locally and I am dreading the chance some migrant will give them a dose of instant putemdown. But even if it isn't a direct risk for attracting aliens, it is a risk to supply an over-abundance of food to the usual suspects.

A shotgun or a pellet gun might help. (As a cathartic at least, if not quite a purge.)

The table aught to be bare more often than not so that the scraps are cleared. At the very least it will attract vermin. (As if pigeons are not.) I have to admit to not having seen a sparrow in a long while though.

Bird dung is a pretty good fertiliser and wherever the swans here squat their huge, dirty droppings on the paving slabs, a long lasting lichen growth marks the spot. That's the algae feeding variety of birdlife. The oil fuelled variety must have a lot more oomph.

Reply to
Weatherlawyer

Reference (not the news reference but the scientific evidence on which the news is based)?

Stupid question I know but just searching for it might persuade you that the 'news' reports are crap.

Reply to
John Cartmell

on a developing pandemic and kept it quiet.

Reply to
John Cartmell

Indeed.

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the situation as it stands right now.

Mary

Reply to
Mary Fisher

Text copied from Faxit reader:

During the past few weeks HPAI H5N1 virus has been confirmed in dead swans in several geographic locations (see map) in western Asia (i.e. Azerbaijan southern Russia, Iran), eastern Europe (Bulgaria, Romania) and some EU Member States (Greece, southern Italy).

The H5N1 is suspected in northern Germany (the island of Ruegen on the Baltic Sea). This island is located in the triangle formed by the north coast of Germany, the south coast of Sweden and the east coast of Denmark.

The H5 virus has been confirmed in dead swans in two provinces in southern Italy (mainland), north Slovenia, southeast Austria and Hungary. Unofficial reports suggest that dead swans have also been found in a few locations in Croatia.

These recent reports do not involve large-scale die-off of swans; rather the virus was detected in individual birds (Mute swan Cygnus olor) that have been found dead and submitted for testing. We are not aware of any detections of the virus in domestic poultry associated with the swan deaths, so far.

It is unknown why the wider distribution of the virus has recently been associated with swans. It is possible that the swans are infected and are carrying the virus over wider geographic areas due to increased movements because of severe winter. Alternatively, the swans may not initially be infected but instead become infected on contact with a local population of wild birds in which the virus may be present but undetected. Swans are large birds and they are likely to be noticed when dead compared to other smaller birds.

Chen and others (2006) consider that migratory ducks may carry the virus without showing clinical signs. However, EU wide surveillance of wild migratory birds detected no HPAI H5N1 in any of more than 25,000 samples collected from wild birds so far.

We are not aware of any differential diagnostic tests that have been carried out to shed more light on whether these swans are dying because of infection with the virus itself or whether they dying of other causes and are carrying the virus without [it] killing them.

We have considered these developments in the context of the risk of the virus being introduced to the UK. According to expert opinion, the UK population of Mute swans is self-contained and under normal circumstances does not come into contact with population in continental Europe.

However, if cold weather in continental Europe forces these populations into the UK, then the possibility of mixing would be increased.

In at least one case (the German island of Ruegen in the Baltic sea) some other populations (i.e. common ducks, geese) that cohabit with Mute swans may to come to the UK if forced by harsh winter weather.

However, it is expected that within the next two weeks these populations of ducks and geese will be returning to their breeding grounds in northern Russia.

Preliminary Conclusions

In our previous risk assessments we took into consideration the reported detection of the virus in eastern Europe including Croatia and suspected H5 virus infection in Bulgaria. We concluded that there is an increased (but still low) likelihood of the introduction of the H5N1 virus to the UK from the outbreaks in the known affected countries in eastern Europe by migratory birds during the autumn migration.

We are still in a very dynamic and uncertain situation. The most recent reports demonstrate incremental increases in the likelihood of imminent introduction of HPAI H5N1 virus from the affected areas to the UK. Overall, this risk remains increased but still low.

The likelihood of imminent introduction of the virus from the current event on the island of Ruegen (Germany) on the Baltic Sea remains increased but still low unless there is marked deterioration in weather within the next two to three weeks that may force either swans or their cohabitants (common ducks, geese) to move to the UK.

Reply to
Weatherlawyer

ply to her.

Common law or byelaw ?

Dave

Reply to
Dave Stanton

Try speaking to the local Environmental Health department. They have powers to take action

In an extreme case they person can be imprisoned.

Peter Crosland

Reply to
Peter Crosland

Can you improve the feeders? The sort with a saucer beneath will catch much of the spillage, avoiding the pigeon feeding problem.

I gave one of my neighbours a couple of hanging feeders. She still gets to feed birds, but they're pigeon proof. Much better than the old "breadcrumbs on the ground" approach.

And get a cat.

Reply to
Andy Dingley

We have five of those. The sparrows kick out the seeds they don't want even from the widest saucer. We don't have visiting rock doves but blackbirds and collar doves scavenge on the ground. And so do the hens of course.

Small amounts of fresh breadcrumbs (such as those left on the table after a meal) aren't too bad but people chucking part or whole slices - or even loaves - are asking for trouble.

What bothers me is that the recent wild bird seed mixture we bought - in a large sack - contains a brassica seed which none of the birds wants. They're kicked away from the saucer and the ground underneath the hanging feeders is very green. I'm hoeing it in as green manure but I'd rather not have it. We shan't be buying that mix again.

We haven't a cat but it sometimes seems that everyone else does, there's always one cat or another sitting on the fence round our garden, they've been a menace to nesting birds. But they don't have an effect on the feeding birds, which fly off when disturbed and return.

Mary

Reply to
Mary Fisher

But mostly only to the birds.

Show us the evidence of any transmission to humans where the humans were not living in particularly close contact with the birds. For extra credit, show us the evidence of any transmission between humans.

Now that the cold war is over, Governments have got to have something to scare us with, hence "global warming", SARS, and bird flu.

MBQ

Reply to
manatbandq

...

Yes. As I've said, if the Fisher hens are infected I'll be the only one at risk from them. Pity some posters don't believe in praying :-)

But whatever happened to SARS? I haven't heard it mentioned in months.

And do you remember the flesh-eating bug which was going to consume us all?

Mary

Reply to
Mary Fisher

My point exactly. On a global scale, a complete non-event.

Now, where did my leg go?

MBQ

Reply to
manatbandq

That's what we want. Making it a non-event took a great deal of hard work - and there were still tricky moments. Like the Millennium Bug - total non-event. So how many billions did people spend in bringing their computers up to date - noting that many manufacturers had made sure well in advance that their hardware/software would ride out the millennium with no problem, and it was one that had (deliberately?) left it so late that reaped practically all the extra sales?

Reply to
John Cartmell

Where did you last put it?

Mary

Reply to
Mary Fisher

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