OT; Jimmy Saville

[Jules Richardson]

I got the impression they just poured concrete over the top, so it should be possible to tunnel in from below.

[brass monkey]

Tunnel? Can you say that?

[SteveW]

My wife deals with people with psychiatric conditions all the time. Many of them have been under mental health services for twenty-plus years. Again and again she finds out that someone was abused as a child, yet they've told no-one before and suddenly they tell her. Most have just been referred to her because their condition has worsened - and that is often because they are confronting the fact that their child, grandchild, nephew or neice has reached the age at which they were abused. Huge numbers do not speak out at the time and are afraid to speak out even as adults. In JSs case, people will be speaking out as they now know that as others have come forward, they will be believed and also will not be stigmatised themselves.

SteveW

[SteveW]

I am certain that some women have jumped on the bandwagon, however there appears to be sufficient independent corroboration to be sure that a fairly large number of young girls were abused.

As I've said elsewhere in this thread, my wife deals with mental health patients. You'd be amazed how many adults with deep and enduring mental health problems (some having made repeated suicide attempts, some having had their children taken away as they are unable to cope, many unable to maintain relationships or function in the workplace) have been abused as children. Some people can move on and function normally or close to, very many cannot and their whole life is destroyed.

For some, being able to get it out in the open will be a catharsis that

*MAY* enable them to move on a bit. Simply that others were also abused and that other people believe them will help. Many will have felt unable to speak out about the root of their suffering until now, feeling safer as he is dead and they are not alone.

As an aside, during a discussion the other day, a guy at work told me that JS was a right nasty bastard. One of his friends got on the wrong side of him and he sent a bunch of heavies round to beat him up.

SteveW

[SteveW]

There were allegations. The police investigated six times, but were unable to gather sufficient evidence. Remember that papers will have felt unable to publish such allegations as he had good lawyers and decades ago there was a stigma attached to being abused, so many would have been unwilling to give evidence - especially if they thought they were the only one. Once it began to come out, it will have become easier to overcome the reluctance to talk about it.

SteveW

[harry]

A bit like these Kenyan ex-mau mau "victims".

[harry]

I think a lot of the problem for these people is caused by our society. In some societies such behaviour is the norm and there are few problems.

[Grimly Curmudgeon]

No comparison at all, really. One was a filthy old perve preying on young girls, the other was a filthy old empire preying on young colonies.

[Grimly Curmudgeon]

And that makes it all right, all OK, does it? Jesus H. Kerist, Harry, do you stop to think at any time, before or as you write?

[whisky-dave]

I don't think that is what's meant. Shame is strange as it's relative.

if a girls skirl blows up while walking donen the hight street and she'll b= e stared at and likely feel embarresed, but weraing less or beign topless o= n a beach doesnt; carry that 'shame' why ? A female friend of mine told me that when she wears a short skirt she alwas= wears a bikin bottom underneather as she's used to wearing that and while = it's no more or less revealing than knickers she feels less embaresed expos= ing her bikini bottom than her knickers, even thought the pretty much cover= the same area, but she is blonde so......

Can you tell me why people feel embarresswed by something ? You do know that those suffering abuse think they are to blame for what hap= pened, it's like a skirt blowing up why should a girl feel embarssred by it= ?

[The Natural Philosopher]

Islamic girls would be ashamed to reveal their elbows to you. Victorian Britain put frills around piano legs as ankles were considered unbearably erotic.

Its pure culture. Having had to go into hospital so many times recently to have just abopuut every private part prodded poked and squeezed it all seems utterly dull and dreary and not in the least bit embarrassing, end yet if it were done outside of a medical context and I was 16 instead of 62 it would be gross and indecent assault.

[Andy Dingley]

They didn't.

Just for those who do find an erotic attraction to pianos though, I have a collection of old piano legs in a peepshow cabinet. Handy for our Steampunk Festival.

[whisky-dave]

well there's the answer then it's not what is done but how others percieve = it and the person.

[harry]

Since the days of empire the ex-colonies in Africa hve all gone downhill. And getting worse all the time.

[harry]

It is considered normal behaviour there even if not so in ours. So it is therefore a cultural thing.

[harry]

e it and the person.

Exactly so. It is our society that creates the mental damage, not what actually happened in the incident.

[The Medway Handyman]

A myth apparently.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Well urts a good story...

Captain Marryat?s A Diary in America, published in 1839. He reported that the word ?leg? was not used in polite society across the Atlantic, and that when he visited a ladies? seminary his guide informed him that the mistress of the establishment, in order to demonstrate her ?care to preserve in their utmost purity the ideas of the young ladies under her charge had dressed all these four limbs in modest little trousers, with frills at the bottom of them!?

So its a vile American lie. But still a good story.

No comment.

[Grimly Curmudgeon]

That's a big fecking 'ding!' there.

[Weatherlawyer]

Not a very handy man is he.

If it was from several years ago it was only meant in very coarse humour. The thing dates from the time of Jess Yates and several other hypocritical expose's.