OT: Insurance company trying to fleece me?!

Hi all,

Would really appreciate some advice on how to approach this.

Basically, I recently renewed my car insurance with the same company as before (Elephant Insurance) - never had any issues with them in my first year driving and the price was decent (over £800 less than last year even with increased mileage and an extra driver).

The policy renewed on 15th February but today I received an email saying:

"A check of your policy details against our system records has highlighted a discrepancy in the details you gave us. The information differs to that recorded on another quote with us or another company within the same group. We have included the omitted vehicle modifications. See the Motor Proposal Confirmation Form. Please note extra condition 11 of your policy applies in respect of non-standard parts replacement. This means a balance of £304.54 is due, which we will be debit from the card details we hold on file"

Now, I remember a while back when I was searching for quotes for this year's insurance, I did include a remap/chip in the modifications section but this was only to see how much of a difference it would make to the insurance premium - it was more of a curiosity thing as I know a few who've had such work done. My car is still completely standard and absolutely no modifications have been done!

I have emailed them explaining the situation but have yet to receive a reply. I haven't had a chance to ring them yet but can anyone offer any advice on how to approach it with them? Can they really take my money for modifications that hasn't even been done?! How would I prove that my car is still running at its standard output (~75BHP)?

Many thanks,

Reply to
gremlin_95
Loading thread data ...

You should post this to uk.legal.moderated. Don't cross post it though, it won't get through. I would say that the company is acting illegally though in my opinion. I would forget emailing them though, get on the phone and send recorded delivery letters stating your position and offering them the chance to inspect the car.

Tim

Reply to
Tim+

In article , gremlin_95 writes

I think you have given a plausible answer and that should be the end of it.

I would strongly recommend that you do not contact them by phone as you will not be able to supply evidence of what was said and what might have been agreed to verbally if it becomes a more serious dispute.

If they ask you again, keep it in writing by re-iterate that you had been considering having your car modified as described but in the end you chose not to.

If you have to use a contact form then write the text and save it in a file somewhere before pasting into the form.

If they persist then ask for the situation to be escalated to a complaint and asking for a copy of their complaints/dispute resolution procedure. Ask that no additional payment is taken whilst your complaint is in progress. If the payment is taken without your agreement, do not ask your bank to reverse it as it may result in the cancellation of your insurance but try to find the money to cover it somewhere and pursue a formal complaint with the ins co, initiating a complaint with the FCA (the financial ombudsman - who now mediated insurance related complaints) if necessary. The resolution will take ages (months) but based on what you have said, you should prevail and you should be able to ask for compensation for inconvenience and cost of borrowing for the additional premium.

The fact that this has come back to bite you reinforces what I have always said about the insurance game and that is that if you want to get speculative quotes, do so in a false name, DoB a few days out, an address 2 doors up and without providing the reg no (you can always enter a vehicle description instead). The phone no and email address can be junk too, just copy the results from the quote screen.

Once you have a quote you like, re-enter it online with your correct details.

Good luck and post back if they get more shirty.

Reply to
fred

Hi all,

Would really appreciate some advice on how to approach this.

Basically, I recently renewed my car insurance with the same company as before (Elephant Insurance) - never had any issues with them in my first year driving and the price was decent (over £800 less than last year even with increased mileage and an extra driver).

The policy renewed on 15th February but today I received an email saying:

"A check of your policy details against our system records has highlighted a discrepancy in the details you gave us. The information differs to that recorded on another quote with us or another company within the same group. We have included the omitted vehicle modifications. See the Motor Proposal Confirmation Form. Please note extra condition 11 of your policy applies in respect of non-standard parts replacement. This means a balance of £304.54 is due, which we will be debit from the card details we hold on file"

Now, I remember a while back when I was searching for quotes for this year's insurance, I did include a remap/chip in the modifications section but this was only to see how much of a difference it would make to the insurance premium - it was more of a curiosity thing as I know a few who've had such work done. My car is still completely standard and absolutely no modifications have been done!

I have emailed them explaining the situation but have yet to receive a reply. I haven't had a chance to ring them yet but can anyone offer any advice on how to approach it with them? Can they really take my money for modifications that hasn't even been done?! How would I prove that my car is still running at its standard output (~75BHP)?

Many thanks,

Reply to
Gareth Magennis

What type of card did you pay with? (i.e. if push comes to shove, you can always get your money back if you paid with a cc, but its harder with a debit card).

Personally I would write to them and state that the car is unmodified, and you don't give permission for any further payment to be taken. If they are concerned then you can make the vehicle available to them for inspection (at their own expense).

Reply to
John Rumm

If you have a local CAB, get an appointment with one of their advisers, as well as what other people have suggested. If things escalate it will be enormously helpful to you to have a real person on your side.

Reply to
Jeremy Nicoll - news posts

On 24 Feb 2015, fred grunted:

Quite bizarre: pumping different scenarios into insurance company search engines is something I do all the time, varying named drivers, comprehensive/TPFT, business/SDP use - can't see why this is any different.

This intransigence puts me in mind of that woman who was warned about 'modifications' because she had a 'Jesus loves you' sticker on her car.

Reply to
Lobster

The problem - if it is a problem - is behind the scenes, insurers are linking a *lot* more data into the customer provided data. Credit checks being one. Along with a collection of industry 3rd party players, who all have databases to fold into the query the rating engine uses to give you a quote.

One marker - not the only one - for a policy quote which is likely to be fraudulent (or not what it seems) is people hitting the quote engine with tweaked details within a short period of time. Every single quote is remembered, so it's quite easy to start looking at patterns of behaviour.

Yes, of course you can fiddle your details to avoid this. However, then you start becoming "invisible" to the system, so attract a higher quote. for example a fictitious name that can't be found on Experian would certainly be quoted a higher figure for instalments.

The aim of the insurers is to either turn away dodgy business in the first place (preferred option). Or to take a premium high enough to offset the risk of fraud. However, there are plans afoot to plough through historic data, and flag up policies bought from quotes which were "dodgy" for closer inspection.

That said, it's probably a Good Thing so many people flood the system with fake data. It certainly reduces the marketing value of the resultant data set.

I can't speak for all insurers - just the one I work for - however since a lot of the anti-fraud initiatives are industry wide, I can't see many wanting to be left behind.

Of course within the near future (probably before 2016) some insurers will no longer need your details - you just give your driving licence number, and things will work from there. I'd be curious to know how people who currently invent names for quotes will fare. To start with the DVLA will be called to confirm the age, gender, and conviction history of the person requesting insurance.

Reply to
Jethro_uk

I'd can cancel the direct debit first as its always easier to not let them have your money than to get it back afterwards. I don't know about cars, but certainly this works with house insurance when they try to suggest that miraculously you are now in a zone of subsidence when you have been there for over half a century.

Brian

Reply to
Brian Gaff

fred put finger to keyboard:

I would advise the OP against saying he was considering modifying his car; it could count against him if he is seen as a potential wannabe 'boy racer', and according to his post he was only curious how much extra the insurance would be.

Reply to
Scion

I don't think that's a good idea with motor insurance - you cancel the DD and they cancel the insurance, leading to possible stops by the police and all manner of extra expenses. (Even if you are not involved in an accident as an uninsured driver.)

Reply to
CB

Agreed, although its worth keeping in mind that there may be a number of reasons for considering a remap on a car, including getting better fuel efficiency.

Reply to
John Rumm

... and anyway I don't think it's a Direct Debit, it's a Credit Card Continuous Authority, quite a different beast and much more difficult to 'turn off'.

Reply to
cl

Couldn't agree more. We did this when we had problems with a local supplier of domestic appliance spares. The CAB gave us a boilerplate text to use and a process to follow & the supplier backed down and gave me my money back almost immediately (they supplied the wrong part for a dishwasher & wouldn't give me my money back "because I'd fitted the part")

Reply to
Huge

See info about canceling a continuous payment authority here:

formatting link
ty/

Simon.

Reply to
sm_jamieson

Hmm. The above link says:-

How to cancel a continuous payment authority

You can cancel a continuous payment authority either by telling the company, or by telling your bank.

If you tell your bank to stop the payment being taken, it has to do so. However, you should make sure that you inform the company taking the payment ? particularly where you have a contract or credit agreement in place. If this is the case, you may still need to make any remaining payments.

From what I've heard it's not nearly as easy as this, the bank will generally tell you that you have to get the company with the continuous payment authority to stop the payments being taken.

I believe there is some recent legislation to make it easier to stop these but I'm not sure if it has been enacted yet (may just be some sort of government recommendation).

Reply to
cl

Here you go:-

formatting link

Yes, there is legislation that says you can cancel the payment by asking the bank to do so, but reality says it's still difficult.

Reply to
cl

In article , Scion writes

A valid point, thank you, I only thought of that after I had posted. Taking the worst possible inference they could view anyone who had even considered modifying their car as a higher risk and impose higher premiums. Welcome to thought crime insurance inc.

Being 'chip' curious as you suggest sounds a safer bet.

Another reason to keep things in writing and to send them only after waiting a while, re-reading and re-thinking the content to be sure it says what you mean, and no more (short and sweet best). Far too easy to say something you consider to be innocent on the phone only to have it taken the wrong way by the other party.

Reply to
fred

OTOH

I was having a dispute with my insurance company which they started by mail with a form to fill in and return envelope supplied

so I replied by post

but they wrote back completing ignoring the information that I had put on the form

After a couple of rounds of this, I bit the bullet and phoned the call centre who sorted the problem out in 2 minutes

I'm inclined to suspect that they take the view that people who are trying to pull a fast one resist phoning up to resolve the problem as it would mean having to keep to the lie through the phone call and that if you do phone up they treat the information that you give them with more credibility than if you write in

tim

Reply to
tim.....

and what's more the:

"we would have declined to cover you if you had told us" reply that she got (WTF!)

tim

Reply to
tim.....

HomeOwnersHub website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.