OT - hard disk recorders for TV?

[Lobster]

Sorry. a bit (a lot!) OT but I'd value the group's opinions on this...

My VCR is definitely on its last legs, and needs replacing very soon. We already have a DVD playback machine; the need here is for something to enable us to time-shift TV (ie record programmes and watch them at a convenient time, then delete them). Not interested in preserving for posterity here.

So the choice is between (a) a hard-disk-type recorder; (b) a DVD-R or

-RW machine; or (c) another VCR.

I really like the idea of a hard disk - no more hunting round for a blank tape with enough free space left; no more hunting round for that tape with the final episode of '24', which I know is there somewhere - but have some concerns...

For example, all these machines give widely varying hour capacities, depending on the recording speed. How realistic are these - how good is the quality likely to be at lowest resolution? How many Gb should I rely on for an hours-worth of viewing?

What about all these downloadable programming guides etc? Are you always locked in to have to pay a monthly sub, plus daily phone calls, on top of the initial purchase price?

Finally, I wonder whether it's too early to be buying an HD machine, are they likely to improve massively in price and quality over the next 1-2 years, as we've seen with DVDs? Therefore maybe a cheapo stopgap VCR would be best? Or a DVD-R (but you've still got the DVDs to find and lose!)

I look forward to your views!

David

[Ian Stirling]

HD capacities are likely to rise - probably around doubling in that time, which will double recording time. A non-trivial fraction of hard disks will fail every year. This means you lose all recordings. It's nice to be able to back up on to DVD in some way, if you can.

[Reckless]

I'd personally go for a HD model and possibly maybe one which also has DVD-R capability. The speed, ease-of-use, etc of HD recording far exceeds anything that recordable DVD can provide (although DVD-RAM is better than the other two formats). However, I've always wanted to keep some things on tape maybe for family/friends viewing or just stuff to archive off hence the DVD-R.

All technology gets better by the minute so yes if you buy it now you'll be kicking yourself next week. But hey that's life!

Presently I've experimented with a PC based digital TV system (kids Xmas present) and it is very good. A 90 minute film can take 2.5GB (highest quality setting) so that *may* give you an idea on what storage capacity consumer units may provide?!

HTH!

[Dave Liquorice]

The Philips HDD and DVD burner device uses a free EPG that it downloads each night from a teletext stream carried by ITV1.

I'm also interested in this sort of device, HDD to avoid the tape hunting for "free space", EPG to record all eps of Y programme, DVD burner to archive off stuff you want to keep. Price tag is a bit steep though over =A3300 or there abouts.

Next down are the DVD recorders at about =A3150, I guess if they can burn a rewriteable DVD then the archiving side is taken care of and you can reuse the DVDs but you then end up hunt the DVD with free space...

[:::Jerry::::]

You seem to contradicting yourself in the above, first you say that you don't keep stuff for posterity and then say that you can't find a blank (or presumably) used tape to record on to....

Well, a VCR is proven technology, there are known problems with recordable DVD's (like compatibility between machines) and HDD recorders are still new to the consumer market - over priced or under spec'ed.

Don't be taken in by Dixons (and DSG) marketing hype, IMO the VCR is far from dead and if it was not only would the Dixons stores be clearing their shelves of VCR's but their fellow DSG stores - Currys.........

-- Reply to group please.

begin .......nothing!

[Andy Hall]

DVD-Rs are now so cheap that it's probably not worth bothering with rewritable disks. As far as spare space goes, at least it's random access.......

[mike ring]

Lobster wrote in news:QAjAd.1544$ [e-mail]:

I didn't think an 80gig drive would be enough for all my timeshifting, which averages about 7 x 3 or 4 hour tapes, so I waited for a 160gig, and then I got a Sony 250gig, which came out about the same time.

What an overkill! 160 would have been loads.

Also this 2.5 GB per hour is at standard play, which is vastly superior to VHS, so you can easily extend; I've not tried lower rates, but I'd be surprised if the longest play was much inferior to VHS

I would suggest a builtin DVD recorder as well, there's always a possibility of archiving, also as a buffer if you manage to push the HD capacity. And you can use your present DVD player elsewhere.

The advantages you've described are even greater in practice: I don't know how I managed before.

mike

[Dave Liquorice]

Seems a bit of a waste just for a time shift of a programme that I might not watch anyway or find naff within the first ten mins and not bother with the rest.

A PC based HDD/DVD burner solution appeals, at least then it would not be under control of the kids and with a bit of tiddling about could probably get an email interface for remote programming set up.

[Sloper]

I was surprised to see that Richer Sounds are doing a Relisys DVD recorder for only £119.99.

'm hanging on a little longer for one with HD though.

[Mike Pepper]

somewhere -

I very much like the sound of the hard disk based systems too, but one critiscm I have read is of excessive noise from the units, (presumably fan noise and noise from the HDD itself). - Has anyone who owns such a unit got any comments on this?

[barclayhomes]

CHECK OUT ARGOS SALE; item 532-0462 @=A3200; 80gb hdd, twin tuners.

[Gordon Henderson]

You are now entering the realms of the home server + network arena - You have a living room "appliance" which is nothing more than a small (fanless) PC (boot off flash) with a slot (combined CD+DVD reader), an RF/UHF in with digital tuner on-board, Video & audio out and a network interface to take the data to/from the "home server" stashed under the stairs..

Well gekky stuff, but it's all do-able with todays technology, and open source stuff.

Hopefully this year I'll get my act together and build such a thing... I already have a spare small PC - little pizza box size thing, works off a laptop PSU, boots from flash, 500MHz VIA processor, although the processor might not be up to playing video from the filestore and recording off-air at the same time.

I've already gotten rid of the old Hi-Fi stack from the livingroom - my DVD player seems to play all my audio CDs quite well... (Amp & Speakers are still there though, but the Amp is now in the telly cabinet and not part of a separate stack)

Gordon

[Andy Hall]

I have one of the Sky units and you can only hear the disk if you put your ear very close to the unit, and even then it's very quiet. In a cabinet and a few metres away, it's inaudible.

[Tony Bryer]

One of my best ever purchases a year ago was my Pace Twin Freeview hard disk recorder which I use for time shifting. The real joy of it is the repeating timer: for a programme you watch week on week you enter the details once, selecting 'weekly', 'daily' or 'weekdays' and it will be recorded each time until you delete the entry. When it comes to playing back you have a nice menu of recordings with each given the programme's name, select what you want and play (skipping the ads at x32 playback). A further plus is that Freeview also carries BBC Radio, so you have a nice easy way of recording radio progs too.

The only caveat is that the software is not 100% and occasionally you do get the endless loop (only cure to switch off at mains) or picture freeze bugs (press stop, then play) but these are more than compensated for by the fact that it does exactly what I want. There are some more recent PVR's around but some only have one tuner so you cannot watch one Freeview prog whilst recording another and some AIUI do not have the repeating timer. And of course you need to be in a Freeview reception area.

[Gordon Henderson]

Following-up my own post, which is not always a wise move, but after catching up with some post-xmas news, I find the ofllowing:

it looks like for under $500 there may well be a pre-built system ready to go... (Although it's probably take Apple another year to get to the UK market and then the $ will change to a £ without any form of monerary conversion taking place )-:

Gordon

[Dave Liquorice]

Freeview *only*, NFG here. Oh and no DVD burner...

[James Hart]

I've got a TiVo sat straight under the TV and don't find the noise intrusive at all, it's behind a glass door but the back is open to the room and the only time you can hear it is if you get right up close to it. I have though swapped the standard HD for a bigger one and specifically choose a quiet running drive. The cooling fan on the case is very quiet, if only PC manufacturers could catch on.

[Lobster]

Thanks, sounds interesting. Just been looking into this one at

see it has a 10 hrs viewing time/ 20Gb HDD which sounds a bit on the low side - are they upgradeable with standard PC kit? (does anyone know if this can be done with other models?)

I also note it's subscription-free - good! - does it still get programme details/transmission times etc over the ether, or do you have to enter all that yourself?

Cheers David

[Lobster]

I'd really like to do something along these lines but TBH I think I lack the geekability to do it from scratch and would need somethig a bit more off-the-shelf. My own living room TV sits next to an ethernet socket for my home network, which includes a PC with (underused) TV card and I can't help feeling that there must be a relaitively simple way to take advantage of this!

I keep dipping into this to find out if technology has got there yet but am not convinced it is yet. There seem to be various media streaming devices (eg:

but I'm not convinced these are really replacements for a VCR, especially in terms of userfriendliness - am I wrong? I've never seen these gizmos in the flesh; has anyone experience of them?

David

[Ian Stirling]

Google Mythtv

However, it's not really precisely turnkey.