OT: Fuel use by the elderly

[Paul D Smith]

Anyone able to tell me if my neighbour's fuel usage is typical? We have the two halves of a semi, he's a single elderly gentleman and we're a family of

1. He uses TWICE as much gas and electric as we do.

Nothing obvious (same levels of insulation etc) although clearly his home is warmer than ours - is that all it takes?

And anyone know a service which could come and help figure out how he can save? Please ignore "more insulation - it's a flat roofed, solid wall house (1923) and it's unlikely the cost or upheaval would be worth it at his age.

Thanks for any insights, Paul DS

[harry]

It could be. A five degree rom temperature increase is all it takes to double fuel consumption. I hope he has heating in unused rooms turned off.. Also if he has an obsolete/no heating controls, this can make a huge difference.

[Owain]

't know if they still do free home energy surveyor visits.

Unless insulation is possible (which may be free for an elderly person) then the limited possibilities are

- draught proofing

- better tariffs

- turn stat down

- more clothes

- more efficient boiler and appliances, but unlikely to be cost effective unless they need replacing anyway and the old ones are inefficient

- spend more time in library / day centre where heating is free

also worth doing a benefits check to see if there are any allowances such as pension credit, winter fuel, etc which aren't being claimed but could be. Local council may have a money advice service which does this.

Owain

[Martin Brown]

Yes. The hit for every extra degree above ambient is considerable.

Insulating the cavity walls might be worth it. It can't do any harm. He should even qualify to have it done for free.

Thermal imaging camera will show where the heat leaks are (not sure how much they charge to survey).

Putting the mirror finish polystyrene foam behind all radiators on external walls will help a bit but basically you are fighting a losing battle if the roof is letting all the heat out! Closing curtains after dark and making sure they tuckbehind the radiators helps.

Why do builders always put radiators on external walls under windows?

[Brian Gaff]

I believe there are schemes run by local councils using firms of advisors. Seems to differ in different areas. Actually, the fact that older people need more heat is well known, and yes, it can be very much warmer and maintaining that differential can be more expensive. The trick is to try to get rid of drafts, while maintaining healthy ventilation. I find some of my windows and air bricks generate more draft than others do.

Also, some people tend to leave doors open when they go out tpo put the rubbish out etc, this costs a lot!

Brian

[harry]

It prevents/limits draughts caused by convection currents circulating in the room.

[Scott M]

Because that's where they waste the least amount of space. Thankfully it's also the best place to put them as it ties in with being the coldest spot. Put them on inside walls and you'd have a hot spot there and a cold spot by the external wall. Be very unpleasant.

It's not as if the window is hemmoraging(sp?) heat in the same way that an open cave would when caveman Bill has the choice of putting his fire either in the depths or by the opening.

Scott

[Nightjar]

Exactly the same everywhere? For example, lagging hot water pipes and the growth in the use of combi boilers (which means no cylinder to lose heat) reduced the energy used in the UK for heating water by 30% between

1970 and 2011, despite a 40% increase in housing stock.

It is claimed that every degree reduction will save around £60 per year in heating bills. However, other things, such as the efficiency of the appliances he is using and whether you do the washing on a cool wash and he does not, will make a difference.

The first thing to check is the level of draught proofing. That is a cheap, easy and remarkably effective way to reduce heat loss. You can also double glaze windows cheaply with secondary glazing film.

Bignell

[Mike Barnes]

Paul D Smith :

Could be. Also, possibly his house is occupied all day, every day, and yours isn't? He has an old and inefficient boiler?

[philipuk]

It could simply be the higher temperature combined with being at home all day instead of being out at work/school.

Philip

[David WE Roberts]

Just wondering how old 'elderly' is :-)

One big problem with many of the elderly (75 and older) is the increasing forgetfullness and the lack of 'joined up thinking'.

A friend has/had a problem with his elderly mother. She would turn off the central heating because 'it cost a lot to run' so she was saving money. However she would then put on a couple of electric fires because she was cold. No amount of explanation or technology can prevent this kind of waste of energy.

Turning the heating up because they feel cold then opening a window because the house is too warm is another classic way to waste energy.

Leaving the door open for the cats then turning the heating up.

Loads of other examples.

Oh, and four warm bodies will help in heating the house.

Cheers

Dave R

[dennis]

IMO its the worst place from a heating and comfort POV.

The best place is a skirting heater along the long edge of the room without any heating element under the window (if there is one).

This removes all the cold spots and it doesn't prevent the radiator from working when you draw the curtains.

They hemmorage heat rather well compared to cavity walls with 2-3" of insulation in them. So much so that drawing the curtains will at least halve the heat loss if the radiator isn't under the window.

[Martin Brown]

Putting heat onto the interior walls of the house makes the core temperature stay higher. Putting a radiator against an outside wall necessarily wastes heat. It is easy to see radiators with a FLIR camera.

It isn't that far off. For single glazed windows it wouldn't make a lot of difference if you replaced the glass with 5mm steel sheet.

[Huge]

My 94 y/o M-I-L doesn't like central heating "because there's no glow". OTOH, she seems to think she can heat a large (and largely uninsulated) 1902 house with a couple of 60W light bulbs (the red ones in her electric fires) because of the cheery glow.

[Dave Liquorice]

Have you figures for that? Glass is not a very good conductor of heat as anybody who has worked with molten/soft glass will know. You can hold a glass rod with bare fingers only a few inches away from the end glowing red in a gas flame. Try that with a same sized steel rod...

[The Natural Philosopher]

yes, you can do that as well with steel

3mm-4mm glass is pretty conductive.

Not AS conductive as steel, but not far off.

>

[Dave Liquorice]

Not convinced. Why do smithies hold the bits of iron they are whacking with a big 'ammer in tonges if it's not to hot to hold?

Figures?

[The Natural Philosopher]

[Tim Streater]

By solid wall, d'ye mean no cavity?

properly. We scrapped what double-glazing there was at this house for that reason.

[Dave Liquorice]

Glass 1.05 Glass, window 0.96

Steel, Carbon 1% 43 Stainless Steel 16

"Not AS conductive as steel, but not far off."

Mmmm... rather loose definition required for "not far off".