OT: Euro standards

[Huge]

I have to keep twice as many light bulbs in stock.

[unopened]

Well, in my experience, the heating/cooling cycle causes the lamp to unscrew itself until the contact is intermittent, so one periodically has to retighten perfectly good lamps. The flickering caused by the intermittent contact shortens the filament lifetime.

Conversely, also in my experience, the lamp can get stuck in the holder, so that when unscrewing a failed lamp, the bulb separates from the base. I have had this happen to me with a BC mount once, but multiple times with ES mounts.

I'm no expert, so I could be missing some very good reason why ES are superior to BC. Could you satisfy my curiosity and say what the areas of superiority are?

Regards,

Sid

[Adam Funk]

It's very annoying, and I agree that there should be as few different types of fittings as possible.

[Adam Funk]

I haven't noticed this, but it makes sense.

Now that you mention it, I have had this problem occasionally (perhaps two or three times in 10 years) but I don't recall which fitting types. Interesting point.

I'm not an expert in this, but I think the main advantage ascribed to ES fittings is that they are polarized with the live farther inside and the neutral closer to the outside.

[Owain]

Except that most countries that use ES don't have polarised mains plugs, so you never know whether the tip or the ring are phase.

Owain

[Tony Bryer]

Assuming they?re wired the right way round. If not they are potentially much more dangerous.

[Adam Funk]

Good point.

[unopened]

Another good point.

As I understand it, it is possible (but not mandatory) for the 'barrel' of the bayonet mount to be earthed, leaving just the two contacts in the base, either of which can be live.

Although not particularly useful for domestic purposes, bayonet mounts are faster than Edison Screw for replacing lamps:

And BC mounts are less vibration sensitive.

Are there any advantages to ES? I suspect they cost less to manufacture, as I think there's less metal in them, and they have the benefit of being used everywhere with only UK, Australia, New Zealand and the Republic of Ireland using BC for domestic lamps. Any good technical reasons?

Cheers,

Sid

[Andrew Gabriel]

There are apparently no recorded electrocutions recorded whilst relamping BC lampholders, but quite a number whilst relamping ES lampholders, due in part to the metal lamp base being live whilst being touched, and due to the lampholders falling apart in the process.

They hold a lamp more firmly in anything other than base-up orientation, particularly larger lamps. That's why traditional reflector lamps are all ES.

and France.

[Adam Funk]

Good point. I was thinking of fixed wiring (ceiling fixtures). (Also, I think that all modern plugs in North America are polarized now.)

[unopened]

Thank-you for that Andrew - I've seen BC lamps waggling in their bases, so yes, ES should be better in that regard. I have had ES lamps self unscrew from a base down position 'though. If BC used three lugs in an equilateral triangular configuration, that would probably help - but there's no point in designing a better lightbulb - ES is 'good enough' - i.e. it's defects are not bad enough to demand a replacement.

I didn't realise the French used BC lamps as well. I've learned something there.

Regards,

Sid

[Owain]

Some BC lamps did use 3 lugs, either on places like the Underground to deter people from nicking them, or because they were dual filament for bright/dim.

Owain

[<me9]

Some flame effect fires had a propriety BC lamp with three lugs as you describe. Sometime in the 50s, I'm not sure how long they were used.

[Bob Mannix]

Still are used with CFL's in new build flats to stop planet eating filament lamps being fitted and thus ensuring the build's certification as energy efficient (partner's son has just moved into new flat with these - it's a real bugger if one fails). Called BC3 lamps/lamp holders

See:

"These are used in the MEM range of BC3 lamp holders and pendant sets which are common in new build homes."

[unopened]

All that does is encourage people with half a clue to replace the lampholder. I would be surprised if BC3 CFLs were less expensive than equivalent standard BC (BC2?) or ES CFLs - and some people may, possibly, want to use filament lamps.

It is not inconceivable that an arrangement be made with the original builder to come and replace them for you - the builder then gets the benefit of re-using the BC3 lampholders on the next build. I have heard stories of similar reuse of items to meet BCO inspections - to the extent that a BCO marked one of the items in question and noted in how many places it turned up again.

A minor point is that the lugs are not placed in an equilateral triangular configuration. From the photo's it looks like it's a 'T'- configuration. On reflection (or should I say rotation) I can understand why.

Cheers,

Sid

[Andrew Gabriel]

They were used when mercury vapour lamps started being retro- fitted to streetlamps where I grew up (north Reading) to distinguish self ballasted MV lamps from externally ballasted MV lamps, to make sure the right ones were used in the right columns.

AFAIK, there is no standard for this yet. There's another firm using a variant of GU10 (and fluorescent starter) lampholders, and in the US, a 1" diameter version is being pushed. I suspect these have more chance of being accepted long-term as they are IP2X (finger-proof). However, I find the idea of designing a new lampholder which takes integral ballasted CFL's just too stupid for words -- the whole idea of integral ballasted CFL's is for retrofit into existing BC/ES fittings, and if you aren't doing that, then you should be using separately ballasted CFLs so you don't chuck the ballast out everytime you change the lamp. MK's version of this uses standard 4-pin CFLs with the ballast in the lampholder which is much more sensible, although probably more expensive for the builder.

Considering that that 3-pin BC CFL is £12 and a standard CFL can be had for £1, and a replacement lampholder is > £1, anyone leaving the 3-pin BC lampholders in place is nuts.

[Bob Mannix]

I was merely adding information, not expressing an opinion as to the worth of the idea! OTOH many young people buying their first flat are not (believe it or not) denizens of uk.d-i-y and regard electrickery as the work of the devil. When you factor the cost of an electrician to do the work and the bulbs last a long time and they have other calls on their money....

[unopened]

Looks like an example of that aphorism "If you think education is expensive, try ignorance."

I don't think even Part P requires an electrician to replace lampholders - but I will express my ignorance here, and admit to not being sure of the situation with regard to kitchens and bathrooms. I need more of that edumacation thingy.

But your point is a good one: most people will leave as-is, as there are other more important (to them) calls on their time and resources. I suppose that is the point, on average, it will drive electricity consumption down - or maybe stop it going up so quickly. The same people are possibly going to buy free-standing dimmable 300W halogen uplighters, that plug into the ring main, especially if they are unhappy with the quality of the lighting in their new dwelling as-is.

Cheers,

Sid

[Pete C]

Is this in the UK only or worldwide?

As a yoof I electrocuted myself while fault finding some dodgy BC lampholders...

I think most problems with ES is people screwing them in as far as they will go, which is too far. Same can happen with 12v battery caps BTDT as a yoof too.

cheers, Pete.

[Bob Mannix]

Bloody hell, I'm impressed! Back from the dead and very active :o)