OT: EU and Canada

[Tim Streater]

The various parties and the government had no business supporting ether side.

[bert]

In article , "Dave Plowman (News)" writes

I'd love to play poker with you.

[Tim Streater]

Well you clearly don't. You appear to imagine the the EU is democratically organised, when in fact it is not. I'm still waiting to be told which party or grouping is the official opposition in the EU Parliament, and where the Shadow Commission is that can be voted in to replace the existing lot.

In fact what we have is something similar to our situation in the

18thC, when the King decided what was what and got Parliament to pass laws to that effect.

But perhaps you are happy that this country was throwing away 200 years of parliamentary evolution towards the constitutional monarchy we have today. Forward to the 18thC, Our Dave!

Of course the US is also in the situation, hence the mess they are in today.

[whisky-dave]

The EU is NOT really ONE THING is it, 28 counties have to decide on this ONE thing.

'IT" you mean 28 28 counties ?

[dennis]

Like I said we will keep the EU ones complete with free movement and probably pay ~£350M a week into the EU coffers too.

[dennis]

The police will try and stop them stealing anything.

[Handsome Jack]

"Dave Plowman (News)" posted

Because then *they* will want some concessions from *us*, and they won't get them unless they offer concessions in return.

Before the referendum, they didn't think they needed to give any concessions, because they were certain we would vote remain.

Some time ago I asked why the EU insists on free movement of people between member states. Answer came there none. So I'll try again: Why can two (or more) countries not have a free trade agreement without allowing free movement of people between them?

[dennis]

Of course they can. If you are selling into a trade area then it affects all the members and they will all want a say in what happens.

This is exactly what happens with the EU and will happen with others.

Its like us trying to negotiate a free trade agreement for cars into France, If we do so then we have a free trade agreement with all EU countries as any of them can buy a car in France. So it affects all EU members and they all have a say.

[dennis]

No brexiteer has though it through, that's why there is no plan and why they then absolve themselves of making said plan.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Can the H of L be voted out in the UK? Etc? There is no single universal version of democracy. And in the UK if any government has a large majority there is no effective opposition either.

And the Queen still has to approve any legislation.

Bollocks. I'm far more worried about our country throwing away 'prosperity' for all.

Another version of democracy. Every country has a different one.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

But you've said it has put a tarrif or whatever on Chinese steel.

Yes. Which goes to show that any trade deal with another is not going to happen quickly. If at all. Unlike what many on here choose to believe, apparently.

[whisky-dave]

Then that will make ~£350M the cost of being in the EU now all we have to do is work out whether that payment is worth while.

[whisky-dave]

A bit late though. When you are waitign for 28 countires to agree. Imagine you had ~28 wives and it was time to decide on the colour of the new scatter cushions. if ONE region of ONE country can stop meat deals with canada then what does that tell you. (probbaly nothing but....) They made the same mistake with the Euro.

YOU DON'T NEED TRADE deals like that, don;t you understand that yet. We import Apple products without a trade deal. I can buy lots of products without the permission of 28 other countries.

[dennis]

The governments job is to decide what's best for the country and, therefore, must take sides.

What would be the role of the government if it didn't take sides and decide things?

[dennis]

Brexiteers have already decided that it isn't as that is what we currently have.

[The Natural Philosopher]

They can, BUT it is a guiding principle of the EU that free movement of people is the price for free trade.

[Tim Streater]

Right so we won't be keeping that contrary to what you said earlier.

[Tim Streater]

They can, of course. And mostly do. You should limit your question to the scope of the EU.

[Tim Streater]

This has nothing to do with anything. The HoL is a revising chamber.

So you don't understand the role of the opposition either. It is to hold the government of the day to account, by asking questions, probing, talking to the media. A lot of that happens in Select Committees, too.

She gets to sign it off once passed by both houses. That's all. Unlike the 18thC when the King probably initiated most of it. And the latter is just like the Commission which initiates *all* of it.

A benevolent dictatorship would suit you, eh Dave, if that pushed up wages? What a fathead.

Still waiting on that EU Parliament Opposition and Shadow Commission info, Dave, but not holding my breath.

[Tim Streater]

Don't be a sap. The govt specifically asked people to vote one way or the other in the Referendum. I.e., the voters were asked to make the choice. Pretty pointless doing that and then the govt then taking a position. What's the point of that?