OT: Disposable tools

I've noticed that many builders and other tradespeople view tools as disposable: used for one job then discarded. I'm talking about hand-tools like saws, brushes and the like; not power tools. It seems like these things are treated as consumables rather than capital items, which is different to what I remember when my father was involved in building projects in the 1970s.

Is this the general rule now, and is it because the tools are so cheap (or maybe so rubbish) that it makes sense to do it this way? I'm not talking about minor DIY use, when things will often last ages because of the low volume of work, but about sizable building projects like an extension or small house.

I can remember people sharpening and setting saws, and generally taking good care of things. It seems to be lot different now, or maybe it's just my builder!

Reply to
Caecilius
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To a large extent, the skills have been lost, and the labour cost of a tradesman sharpening a saw now is probably more than a replacement would cost.

Then there are the improvements in materials, where things like saw teeth and drills stay sharp longer than they did, but are more difficult to sharpen.

I used to sharpen drill bits in the metalwork shop at school, and can still do it by hand without a guide, but bits now are often only case hardened, or have a sliver of tungsten at the tip, and once that's worn out, the rest of the bit is made of something that closely resembles cheese.

Reply to
John Williamson

Its pure cost benefit analysis. If you can spit out a drill on an automatic lathe for less than it cost to employ a man to hand sharpen it...

And that is the point with the disposable society. The machines can melt scrap steel, and reforge a new part at far less cost - except in energy

- than it takes a human to do refurbish.

That is a statement about the relative costs of energy, human beings and machine tools.

Imagine a society in which the dominant cost was not human labour, but energy. When the material content and manufacture transport and so on of a drill bit made it worth 15 quid, not 15p. And people were desperate for any work and sharpening 10 drill bits an hour on a hand whetsone meant the difference between survival and starvation..

In short, welcome to the 21st century.

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

It's not just tools, it's whole components. When my Dad started working in motor repairs in the 60s, he says there was a whole workshop devoted to refurbishing almost everything. Clutches, brakes, water pumps. Then it became cheaper to replace than repair, with the last two exceptions being starter motors and alternators.

Reply to
Jethro_uk

I doubt they are discarded after the job - but more likely just left there when worn out. Saws are usually hard point these days and not economical to re-sharpen.

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

And also the warranty on new parts made it easier to 'guarantee the job'.

And the profit on new parts and the cost of skilled labour means that you dont replace an oil seal: You replace the whole axle and differential instead.

Beside, parts are now so well made that in general when something goes apart from 'consumables' like clutches brakes and so on, most people take that as a sign the whole car is abiout to fall to pieces and they are not that wrong.

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

Its a combination of things... tools used to be expensive and time cheap, now its often the other way around. Also technology has kicked in with many tools, so they are often more effective, but less serviceable.

Saws are a good example. A quality saw was expensive and you would keep it for years with lots of resetting and sharpening. A modern hardpoint saw cuts so much faster and easier - especially on modern composite and man made boards, it costs a small fraction of an hours labour to replace, and it can't be easily reset or sharpened. Hence its quite common for builders etc to buy them by the dozen, and discard them as they get blunt.

Try cutting laminate flooring with a traditional saw - after a couple of boards it will need resharpening, and it will be hard going even when sharp. A £7 jack saw will do the whole room, and then be shagged.

Reply to
John Rumm

The best one is when huge infrastructure projects are done - not just brushes and shovels, but earthmovers, Land Rovers, plant, are left behind. Guess what's buried in the Shetlands, at the oil terminal?

Reply to
Grimly Curmudgeon

Do tell! Is there a Shetlands 'cargo cult'?

I do know that when I was working on a digital high speed storage scope I did ask how long they expected the product to last "In the case of three of them, about 500 microseconds" some engineer replied.

"Oh?"

"Just long enough to send the data from the nuclear test site back to te recorders" he smiled.

ALL they were to be used for was to gather 500 microseconds of data...cheap at half the price apparently.

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

A mate watched it happen and when he asked what the rationale was, a middling-type manager told him it just wasn't worth the hassle transporting half/fully worn-out machinery back to the mainland and besides, it had all been paid for and amortised over the job. This was 30-odd years ago and by now most of it will be rust, as none of it was protected - just a giant scoop of ground, items driven in and covered over with rocks and soil. I wonder what the did with the last earthmover - perhaps that one wasn't so knackered :)

Reply to
Grimly Curmudgeon

Also a decent modem saw cuts far better than any tradesman sharpened saw that I have used.

Reply to
Steve Firth

So a next millenium Tony Robison can gush over the religious significance of the 'Shetland Horde whilst academics ponder the strange religion that placed millions of spinning prayer wheels in the water to pray to the god of energy when the oil ran out before sensible people discovered nuclear power and brought the second Dark Age to an end around 2900 AD.?

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

There have been times I've wished I had a modem saw....

Reply to
Phil

a tile saw is usually effective. As is an angle grinder....

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

Then you find saws coated in teflon and when it wears away....

Brian

Reply to
Brian Gaff

Yes very odd type of saw that. However while on the subject of tools. Modern chisels seem to be made of crap as well. I dare not use one now, but people are telling me they won't sharpen any more, in fact one was made of such crap it bent!

Brian

Reply to
Brian Gaff

That was my reaction, but apparently not, when all was taken into account. This, of course, was before Great Greening, when such an action would be decried and publicised by the huggers. I thought it a tremendous bloody waste though, as I'd happily have taken a nearly-new 110 Landy off their hands, even if it was on its last legs.

Reply to
Grimly Curmudgeon

Exactly so. I picked up a couple of hardpoint saws for about 3 quid each a few years ago. They've kept a fantastic edge for ages, but suddenly let go in sharpness. Throwaway tools, hard to resist the sharpness, for they were wonderful, but I really hate tossing stuff out. Oddly enough what shagged them was Kingspan, nothing harder.

Reply to
Grimly Curmudgeon

I've certainly had one which cuts off.

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

It could, of course, be a taxation/accounting thing. Equipment written down over the period of the construction, so if sold after would incur a tax bill. This is the sort of ludicrous situation the treasury is very good at making.

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

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