Yes, it's a bit bizarre that they don't just suggest undoing the old valve before you get a hacksaw out! BTW, you should never use a hacksaw on pipework except in the most severe circumstances. Use a low (or high, if it will fit) profile pipe cutter that doesn't screw up the pipe.
Christian.
There are words as well as pictures: "If you're unable to disconnect the valve, use a hacksaw to cut through the pipe on each side".
He lives around the corner. He took less than 20 seconds to look at it. He was in my house less than 3 minutes.
Correct. ;0)
The reason I posted on these newsgroups is to establish:
1) Whether what he is charging is reasonable from various people. I don't doubt that some can do the job themselves at pretty much cost. However, if I were to get this guy to do it, what is a reasonable price. Whilst I don't mind paying, I would be a fool to just nod my head at any price asked of by the heating engineer. Its all very well saying that the person would go out of business if his prices were too high - however, thats not any reason for not doing some enquiring myself.2) Whether the heating engineer made a reasonable diagnosis given the symptoms. This appears to be a correct assessment.
The question now is whether I want to do it myself, or get a heating engineer out to do it for me.
I may try a compromise solution and order the part myself and get the heatiing engineer to only charge labour.
However, from the posts made by someone else, I also need to know whether I need a mid position or diverter, and I currently cannot tell.
AMO
We know somebody who does.....
One point that I don't think has been mentioned is that if the plumbing is undone, the system has to be drained beforehand.
The water may well contain iron salts from the insides of the radiators etc. or even some sludge. This is an indellible dye so appropriate precautions are needed.
It is then prudent to give the system a flush through after doing the work and before refilling and adding corrosion inhibitor.
.andy
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Those links include the whole thing. However, you will normally be able to separate the actuator from the new part and install on the old wet section.
The whole valve consists of the water carrying parts and the valve mechanism. The actuator bolts on to this and contains a synchron motor, various switches/relays and the override lever. It is normally the sychron motor that has failed. They can be bought separately, but this requires you to disassemble the actuator to install.
Yes. Normally it is a failed motor. You can normally tell by removing the actuator head and attempting to move the paddle by hand using pliers. If it moves without undue resistance, then the valve assembly is likely to be fine. If it is jammed, then you need to replace the wet part.
Whilst many people do use PTFE tape to seal up compression joints, I'm a purist and use nothing at all within the joint, although with a reused olive like you will get in this case, it might be worth a wrap or two.
If you need to replace the wet part, you'll need to learn how to drain and refill the system. You'll also need to replace the inhibitor. Many people leave this in far longer than is good, so a new dosing of fresh water and inhibitor is rarely a bad idea anyway.
Christian.
Thanks for pointing that out Andy.
From the responses of what people have been telling me, it appears that the best way forward for me would be to:
1) Establish whether I need a Mid Position or Diverter 3 port value. 2) Order the compoment. 3) Ask around to get a competitive price for replacing the component.I could try replacing the component myself if it is only the electrical/mechanical part that needs replacing.
Question....if something going wrong just changing the electrical/mechanical part, will that simply mean that the central heating will work as it is, or will my hot water stop working as well?
AMO
..and insert inhibitor Sentinel X-100 when filling.
3-port valve. If that requires a drain down, a complete new valve fitted, re-filling with inhibitor, then that is a good price. He should be there bets part of the day, draining , filling and getting the air out.
Are you serious?
Yes. I would only use a hacksaw if there was no possibility of using a low profile pipe cutter. It is actually quite rare to be able to get a hacksaw into a position that couldn't have been done with a squeezy type cutter. Feel free to disagree!
Christian.
I would drop him. Has the motor gone or has the valve seized? Did he get his test meter out and test the motor? Most can tell if the motor has gone, by using test screwdriver to see if power is at the valve, and then moving the valve manually to see if the valve movers. If it moves and power is at the motor, 99% of the time it will be the motor. If the motor has gone it is an easy task of replacing the motor. A new valve is a drain down with new inhibitor poured in.
If he is a "plumber" and does bathrooms and the likes don't bother with him. Go to a heating engineer. They understand the heating and electrical sides. Most plumber know little about the electrical side.
Thanks for the advice IMM.
Yes, he's a plumber. Will look up some heating engineers.
Thanx.
AMO
I just had a look at mine and it's got a manual actuating lever that you can lock in the mid position - if yours has the same arrangement then you could switch the heating on that way and not worry about replacing it for a while :-) If either the mechanism or the valve itself is knackered then this probably won't work, but if it's just the motor ...
First establish if the valve has seized or the motor has gone.
Get the same model for ease of fitting, if the whole valve needs replacing.
electrical/mechanical
After eons in the business I fully disagree.
Hi,
have them for a similar price, free p&p til end Sept too.
cheers, Pete.
So you would use a hacksaw in a location where you can get a proper pipe cutter?
You're quite mad, aren't you?
The hacksaw gets a horrible cut with swarf at a slight angle, requiring reaming. The pipe cutter cuts a clean straight cut, with a tiny indentation right at the tip that aids joint assembly. It does so in a fraction of the time and without spraying metal dust around.
Christian.
Mine is a Honeywell component.
Couldn't see any manual switch unfortunately.
AMO
I just took the lid off the 3 Port Valve.
It is a Honeywell Motorized Diverting Valve.
It has a number: V4044C1288 on it.
Also has a picture:
Heating DHW | | V Air Inlet
...and some writing.... Max Diff Press = 69kPa (10 psi) Max Static Press = 863 kPA (125 psi) Max Fluid Temp = 88 C (190F) Hot Water Only Made in Canada 40000593-122
AMO
Certainly. You can diagnose it a little further by unbolting the head from the body (no water escapes), and try turning the cam underneath in your fingers. If it is stiff (and it could easily be), then *carefully* try some flat pliers on it and see if it can be made to turn and frees up. If so, then life is easy and you just replace the head. Obviously make sure you line up the cam to the motor slot.
If it really does seem stiff then the body should be replaced as well.
It could affect both. If the valve can be turned reasonably easily, you shouldn't have a problem, though.
.andy
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