Good ground clearance would be useful ( especially if the river runs to flood as it did last week. But manual not necessarily. As I said, I cannot afford to be reliant on OH who doesn't even want to get out of bed anymore.
I suppose a lot of my fears ( and even the chip on my shoulder) is a result of too many people wanting to extol the virtues of their manual cars even when those cars do not prove themselves . The numbers who got stranded in the snow last year and the number who couldn't hack the floods recently for example.
My automatic has managed both but I still end up fearful because of all the comments of others. Why does my car go when theirs don't seems to be a question in my mind? Equally, why do 4x4 autos get out of the village when I got stuck at the bottom of the hill on sheet ice?
I was putting manual forward as a suggestion as to why other 4x4s got out but you didn't.
If other makes of auto get out on ice and you don't the reason must be a little more subtle. I can't find any info on the Clio system but Renault is backward about coming forward with the advantages of the Dacia Duster:
"Dacia Duster is easy to drive and not only aimed at all-terrain drivers. Its combination of its low unladen weight (1,180kg in 4x2 -
1,280kg in 4x4[1]) and compact proportions, ensure particularly agile handling. In the 4x4 version, thanks to the unique and intuitive control (sourced from Nissan) located at the foot of the centre console, Dacia Duster drivers can easily adapt the vehicle's transmission configuration to meet their needs of the moment. This control allows one of three modes to be selected:
- When the AUTO mode is selected, the front/rear torque split is calculated automatically as a function of available grip. This system is aimed at providing optimal traction, however much grip is available, and gives Dacia Duster genuine 4x4 ability. In normal conditions, the torque is transmitted through the front wheels only. If traction is lost, or when grip is at a premium, some of the torque is transferred to the rear axle. In extreme conditions, the torque is split equally front and rear. This split is performed by an electromagnetic torque converter supplied by Nissan.
- In LOCK mode, the driver electronically locks it into 4x4 mode, whereby 50 per cent of torque is consistently fed through the rear axle. This mode is recommended in low grip conditions (snow, mud, dirt, sand) at low speeds."
I don't see why the advice should to switch from Auto to Lock unless the weight distribution is exactly 50/50 which seems unlikely for this vehicle. Splitting the power equally between front and rear suggests to me that traction would be lost at the rear (ISTR most cars are nose heavy) well before that at the front leaving the 4x4 little better than a front wheel drive car in the same conditions. It could be that as this system is essentially a bit of part time 4x4 grafted onto what is essentially a front wheel drive vehicle it doesn't really do what it says on the tin and very low grip situations catch it out.
harry gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying:
Don't get winter tyres confused with chunky tyres.
A normal 2wd car on winter tyres is very much more capable than a 4x4 on summer tyres. The only times that 4wd makes a difference on snow and ice is when the snow is deep enough that ground clearance becomes an issue, and when initially trying to move off. For going round corners and braking, it's the tyres that are important, not the number of driven wheels.
A set of winter tyres on a set of second-hand steel spare rims is far, far cheaper than changing an otherwise suitable vehicle - and doesn't even need to increase the overall running cost, since you're not wearing out your normal summer tyres.
Most modern 4x4 have fat tyres, which are absolutely useless in snowy/icy conditions, older landrovers had skinny tyres. Same with cars, BMW etc have fat tyres, small supermini tend to have thin. You only need to look at the news, BMW etc struggling to make progress, passed by a fiat panda or such like.
Skinny tyres allow the car to make better progress as there is more weight per square inch on the road. Combined with knobbly tyres on a 4x4 or snow chains on a car, means you can make the most of what grip is available, obviously a 4wd sends less power to each wheel so it is easier to get traction and move off. That might explain why you could not get up the hill, as you could not get enough traction. Snow chains might have helped, as would winter tyres.
Some time ago, top gear did a test of 4x4s to see how far they would go across a grass field with a bit of a slope, they all got stuck, the Range Rover got the furthest, but the farmers old series 3 land rover with the right tyres drove past the lot of them.
What tyres do you have on your car? Do you own a set of snow chains? I woudl guess that the 4x4s you refer to probably had AT tyres which are an "all season" type, so not as good as proper winter tyres but better than the ones fitted to most saloons as standard.
Swedes, the Swiss and others manage all year round in far worse conditions than the UK without needing 4x4 vehicles. In fact front-wheel drive vehicles are preferred by many who drive in these conditions and they simply use the appropriate tyres for the job.
FWIW, I took a Fiat Ducato based motorhome (front wheel drive) over the Dolomites in heavy snow a couple of years ago, summer tyres, no snow chains, about 9-15 inches of snow on the road. I made it from Italy to Basel where we stopped for the night. Progress was slow, but steady. I saw many 4x4s crashed out at the side of the road, and was in the company of several drivers in SAABS and Peugeots, all moving. The only problem came at an uphill section where crashed vehicles littered all three lanes. You can't do anything about that in a 4x4 either.
I left the motorway and took the motorhome over a mountain pass. It was worrying but not impossible.
Last January I had to get into work no matter what the conditions. I did so in a 4x4 fitted with winter tyres. It was still a difficult drive, mostly complicated again by crashed and abandoned vehicles and I only needed to switch in 4x4 high ratio once during the entire trip.
I can't imagine what that means. It does sound a bit as if you are imaging some magic on the part of 4WD. When you've had a go in one in snow and experienced having all four wheels slipping at once you might feel differently. Having 4WD can be good, and it can leave you worse off, much depends on the driver. However since you're a driving god that obviously doesn't apply in your case.
But the manuals didnt get out. The automatics did. I my two wheel drive didnt make it ( although I got further than most), the four wheel autmomatics got out. The two wheel manuals ( and my automatic front wheel drive did better than them) didnt get beyond the first corner. hence 4x4 automatic seems to be the choice.
I suspect, especially since the position is labelled as "LOCK" that this setting locks the front/rear differential giving equal power distribution front and rear. Because the diff is locked, this means that if a front wheel slips the rear will still be able to turn and vice versa. If the diff. were not locked then a slip on any wheel would prevent the other three from turning.
The negative aspect is that if conditions improve this setting will result in transmission "wind up" in which twist is induced in the prop shafts and half axles. Running with the diff locked on dry tarmac will result in damage.
This is all quite normal and the advice about the Dacia doesn't mean that is "essentially a front wheel drive vehicle".
You do know snow chains are illegal dont you? I have a set of good tyres, nothing more - all new. Continentals, they type Renault put on the car.
Thats not acceptable is it? O havent commented on anyone being a bad driver- except when some clown decided to claim that driving a manual made HIM more " capable" than I was.
It is true I do not break the speed limit. I t is true I drive safe and sure rather than fast and aggressively. But I do drive in accordance with road and traffic conditions. Not too slowly I would hope. I would not claim to be perfect. I do claim a point free licence and an accident free thirty years of driving though and I am on the road every day and I travel distances in all weathers ( not always a choice).
I need to change my OH's van. Its time to change his van as it has aged ( my Clio is two years old, his van is 7 uears old now). I would like a car rather than a van, automatic as opposed to manual so I can drive it when necessary ( since the God male in my home seems to think that reired means stay in bed and get the little woman to do all things, whilst he pontificates but thats another story). I was under the impression 4x4 were good in rural areas as thats where I live and most people here have them. Most here also seem to have the automatic transmission version too . Maybe they are all wrong too?
That is the key. Of all my 4x4s the series III landy with military tyres, like a tractor, was the best.
If snow and mud are something you have to deal with a winter set of wheels - cheap steels - with M&S tyres on are what you want. Put those on in December. Go back to road tyres in March.
But only if you are any good at that. The majority of average drivers in my experience are not that good. They may think they are but what thought does is not necessary a correspond to events or fact does it? I have to say this , I am getting fed up. I didnt ask for this to go to the " driving experts". I had hoped for some straighfroward simple " I have this car , I would recommend it" or conversly " dont get this its rubbish" type answers.
I wouldn't have called the crossply remoulds I had on my 2A SWB LR skinny. They did have a much better tread for mud and snow than the radials I had on my later Ranger Rover.
BMWs struggle in snow for the very reasons that make them such nice cars to drive for most of the year - rear wheel drive and near 50/50 weight distribution. Front wheel drive gives a very significant advantage when it is really slippy (pull not push) as does loading the driven wheels with 70% or more of overall weight.
Fat tyres per se make next to no difference. With radials the tyre footprint is very much determined by the tyre pressure, not the tyre width, other things being equal.
Down to tyres. Modern road tyres clog with mud very easily and once that happens you effectively have slick tyres.
No one is saying anything about "magic secrets" other than you. You are wrong about Germany studded tyres are banned there. The use of winter tyres is mandatory in Germany, winter tyres are not (necessarily) studded, although mine have holes for studs to be mounted if required.
Although studded tyres are sometimes used in Sweden, they are not the norm and are only used in lattitudes that have permanent snow in winter. Studded tyres drastically degrade performance on tarmac surfaces.
I don't know, is there one? I only have a Fiat scudo because it was available and the right size at the time. I do not have any strong preferences for make. As long as it is reliable . Available would be good but I had it in mind to get together a number of possibles and then ask the local second hand car dealer to get me a " nearly new" of whatever was on the list. Have done that successfully before ( and said bloke is reliable and doesn't sniff at my requests - unlike the main dealerships with new cars.)
Well in low range and manually selecting 1st our discovery would descend at a slow walking pace and that was down steep off road tracks. I would say the speed was comparable to a series landrover with feet off the pedals.
To the OP if you really need a something to get through the snow etc, get a BV206 they are automatic, road legal and you can drive it on a car licence, and you really do have to drive like a tosser to get that stuck, you would have had no chance in a car!
HomeOwnersHub website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here.
All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.