OT - 4x4 automatic car.

Well, that's the problem you see. I discussed this on the legal newsgroup several years ago. ( Peter Crossland might recall this , I think he contributed) . At the time someone was questioning the fact that they had received a replacement licence from the DVLA which had removed categories from their licence. I had changed my licence because I had a burglary. I got one of those new picture ones - which I still have.

Now my old paper one had stated I passed a test in an automatic but my new picture one didn't mention this at all . It gave me all categories manual and auto. I know the advice from legal was to say nothing because I might end up having to retake my test ( as the DVLA gad told the biker he had to re take his test, even though it was their mistake).

So I have this licence which actually says I have a manual licence but I know I learned in an automatic and so I wont drive anything else. I learned to drive around that magic date - so that is all important and I don't know which I have now.

Reply to
sweetheart
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I don't know what it is about cars and driving topics that seem to bring out the worst in this group... most threads seem to avoid the petty back biting most of the time!

Reply to
John Rumm

Which bit of your post below says "on dry roads"? "in good weather" means bugger all. It can be sunny with wet roads or lying snow.

---------------------- I hear this a lot but think it's over-stated. Was out t'other night (far from the madding crowd) on boggo summer tyres in dry, -1.5C conditions and tried to find the edge of their envelope.

I came to the conslusion that if I really needed this extra traction/grip that winter tyres would provide then I should seek psychiatric evalution for suitability in having a license in the first place!

Standard tyres are so good these days in good weather that, even if they're diminished by the cold, IMO they're still more than good enough to keep Joe Public safe.

----------------------

B2003

Reply to
boltar2003

You're not trying very hard. I've lost track of the number of times I've seen "dyspraxia" mentioned.

Ask yourself this question. How did I get the impression you were spending an inheritance? Come on. Think. Why should I? What would make me, someone who doesn't know you, leap to what would be, in other circumstances, really odd assumption? I haven't just invented it, it's come from somewhere......

(Clue: Person happy driving a Clio suddenly wants a complete change of car type but with no understanding of what it provides. Budget: not important. An inheritance gets mentioned later on[1])

For your sake, listen to this bit very carefully:

Stop talking about yourself.

At every opportunity you shove some "look at me, please go ahhhh" fact in that just comes back to bite you. I have absolutely no interest in demeaning you for your loss or problems but you must understand that you just open you mouth and shove both feet in.

TBH, and again I don't know you so this is completely objective, I bet the reason you found car salesmen 'sniffy' is that you insisted on giving them your entire life story. It fits your personality type.

The hilarious thing about this thread is that the best and most complete answer you've had was the first one from Mr Firth. He can be an agressive sod at times (ok, most of the time!) but it covers almost all of the bases and was actually very concise and to the point. But you've taken it, like everything else (and probably this) as some huge critique and attack of you. You. You. You.

He didn't know you from Adam so wrote a nice general piece that covered generic facts and you rubbished it because you don't understand the difference between general comments based on what we know of you (hint: nothing, not even your name) and personal attacks.

[1] Just noticed, it's in the first post too. Jeez.
Reply to
Scott M

I'm sorry, have you always been this stupid or do you take lessons?

Right, less "They make a huge difference even on 2wd cars on *** dry *** but cold (

Reply to
Scott M

There is less in it that you might expect - assuming you are comparing like for like, probably only 2 - 3 MPG on a petrol engine with the cars I have had.

It also depends a bit on whether you think in terms of 4WD as making a car "off road capable" rather than just "all road capable" - the latter ethos has been promoted by the like of Subaru and Audi over the years as a way of getting traction down on the road in a controlled manner on any road and in most conditions, rather than particularly as a way of romping over fields etc[1]. It really starts to offer benefits as the power output rises - no torque steer, wheel spin, neutral handling characteristics in the corners etc.

[1] Although more recent "crossover" vehicles have extolled the off road capability more.
Reply to
John Rumm

Well I did ask myself this question actually. I came to the conclusion it was because someone else mentioed it. They mentioned it because they knew I had asked both in diy ( an Off topic again ) and in legal moderated about how to get probate on an intestecy. In fact there was quite a debate about the problems. I took it you got it from there and had decided to make a point of not letting it drop.

The clue was in the OP - my OH's van is up for a change this year. Nothing to do with my happy Clio driving. I want to change his van and various factors ( including recent weather) had focussed my attention on whether I should get him a 4WD to replace the van.

The issue of it being an auto came up ( and I didnt say this) because a) you can get 4WD autos . Vans in auto are not easily come by. b) I thought it might be more glexible if for any reason I needed to take it to work. At the moment I have to try and arrange my services and other things to ensure its not when I am going to work.

I did think various people for their contributions so its not fair to attack me for not thanking them.

I laid out in my OP what the agenda was to make it clear that it had nothing to do with a previous thread on another topic precisely because I didnt want to court comments about spending money like that.

>
Reply to
sweetheart

Then we are faced with the not uncommon problem of terminology and what different people understand by it. Technically I think you are probably correct but I have never used the term for anything other than a constant rate device.

As to the 35 mph device I don't remember a 35 mph speed limit but in the days of purchase tax there was a 40 mph limit on light commercial vehicles which could have been lower back in the early days of Land Rovers. A friend of mine was most incensed to have an endorsement for speeding when the offence in question was travelling in excess of 40 mph (in a Mini Van) on a national speed limit road or, perhaps, on a de restricted road prior to 1965.

My 2A was an ex commercial vehicle (got a refund on the tax disk when I change it to private) and that had a persuader on the accelerator linkage. Press down more than about half way and a much stronger spring was engaged.

Reply to
Roger Chapman

yours might. Mine does the brakes.

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

Well the first 5 miles n the manual are often 'interesting' and likewise when switching back, but its no worse than getting off the ferry at calais and remembering for the first half hour that its not cool to drive on the left.

Or scrabbling round the drivers door for a gear lever when you just hired a car in Miami..

Its not helped by certain manufacturers making the brake pedal on autos so wide that you instinctively push it to the floor to change gear...

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

I never said they were capable of LEARNING though.

Chavs in uniforms, mostly.

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

Correct. However if your abilities exceed the car's, then avoiding mid corner kickdown is something you have to deal with.

And that's the sheer unalloyed joy of them.

For the average driver who isn't bold, and whose mind is on other things

- especially town traffic - a good auto means less performance, but less mistakes.

Including the incredibly dangerous one of muffing the pull out into a traffic gap, and stalling.

For MOST peoplel with limited ability, an auto does a better job of handling the clutch and gerachange then they can muster.

A driver of above average interest and ability can make them do tricks to get performance (nearly) back.

Left foot braking on te pull away in snow is a classic. Use the brake like a clutch: and it stops wheelspin on a 4WD..less effective on a 2WD tho.

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

Then test drive a Freelander. I think you will find it fits your bill perfectly.

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

Keep the brake on gently into the corner, get the juice flowing into the torque converter till it kicks down, then release brake gently and it should stay in the gear ..

if you have tiptronic its easy. Just operate the box manually until back on the clear road..then flick it into auto..

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

+10
Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

Oh spppppppllllllllffffff !! I think that settles the matter.

Reply to
Tim Streater

look its pretty simple. On a dry road, the dominant factor is tyre area, temperature and rubber compound.

You can trade grip for longevity. Hence why racing cars have enormous slicks that last less than 50 miles.

On a damp road, its slightly advantageous to have a little tread as well.

I a wet road, the same applies BUT you must have serious sipes to clear the water to prevent aquaplaning. So the best road car practice is wide low profile and softish rubber.

NONE of that is relevant in mud slush snow or dirt. What you need then is to get the grip by digging down to whatever you can find and scrabbling away at it. Narrow tyres with deep tractor style tread patterns are best, and because there is no issue with them being needed to melt and stick to the road like a race tyre, they are made of uber hard rubber that wont destroy itself when spinning in gravel. That's your M&S or agricultural tyre. M&S tyres such as I had on my Defender are crap on the road. Very little grip on dry hot tarmac at all. BUT they lasted 50K miles. That's how hard the rubber was. Conversely they went like anything on mud, gravel or snow. Ice is a different matter. If its sheet subzero ice only chains or studs work. If its crusty then M&S work if they can break up the surface a little and get grip that way. That's where narrow tyres work. Higher contact pressure

For the UK we almost NEVER get any significant serious ice rink ice. And if we do, my advice is stay home. It's rather a mixture of slush, wet, fresh snow and rutted crusty snow, and M&S are the best winter option.

BUT even on stock road tyres a good off road 4x4 is a good bet for snow.

better than a 2WD anyway.

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

Tts a bit like saying that tennis players should not use the forehand and the backhand, because they might use the wrong one in an emergency.

It takes about 5 miles for the 'mode' to settle in, if you do it regularly.

And in any case, stamping hard on all peddles works in all cases to stop.

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

see my previous post. It has advantages, but its not mandatory.

They are

- ability to control kickdown if no manual mode avaialable

- ability to control wheelspin in the loose.

I even use it routinely on hill starts and at traffic lights: hold the car on footbrake, rev a bit, release brake,. its so like a normal clutched start its a natural.

Most autos will creep at idle on a no break scenario and slip backwards on a steep hill. Ok there is a handbrake, but that's the same as using the left foot more or less.

A classic hill start in a manual is a case of accelerator and brakes together, so why not use the better brakes on the pedal, in an auto?

It's the best way to get a fast takeoff at the lights too. have the torque convertor leaning on the brakes, then let go the brakes..gets the convertor a bit hot tho. So dont go mad..

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

Series I????

thats 1950 something.

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

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