On the subject of boilers...

I have a rather old (mid 80's) Thorn Apollo boiler. I need to replace the thermocouple and the top socket every now and again, and brush out the chamber, but apart from that, it seems to just keep working. Should I be worried that it's going to pack in one day soon? Or do these things just go for ever? Or is there a fuel efficiency reason to change it that is actually cost effective?

Reply to
Ivan Dobsky
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You might save 20-30% on gas with a modern boiler but your would not only have to stump up the boiler cost but also thermostatic valves, flushing etc etc. Ignoring any environmental considerations - and they are a bit woolly anyway, keep it going until you can no longer get parts. If the gas valve failed - that might be difficult to get hold of perhaps.

I have a similar aged boiler which soots up from time to time and can see no reason why so I am just about to put in a replacement Bosch regular condensing boiler. I'm lucky that I can buy them cheap (staff) but I am still not sure of the long term economics. Time will tell. I'm also adding various solar energy inputs to the system so expect to save gas due to that but it is a whole lot more complex.

just my 2p

Reply to
Bob Minchin

I'm in a similar position and what worries me, are the fairly regular comments 'My boiler's about 10 years old, had several problems and I'm thinking about replacing it ! If that really is the average life of modern boilers, then any saving pale in to insignificance.

Andy C

Reply to
Andy Cap

Also, a supply pipe upgrade that won't be cheap.

My boiler is even older, it was here when we bought the house in 1978. The gas valve was very difficult to source (ITT McLaren) at a reasanable price when it failed, but a good saved search on Ebay is the way I found one.

Reply to
Graham.

I haven't needed to drain down my system for close on 20 years there is no inhibitor in the water, I wonder if it's inert by now anyway?

Soft Manchester water if that makes any difference.

The only thing that have ever leaked is some of the stuffing glands of the radiator valves. Hope I am not tempting fate by typing this ;-)

Reply to
Graham.

My sister was persuaded to have hers replaced a few weeks ago (one of these pay monthly schemes), and I don't think that in her position I would have bothered. But since there's basically only a pipe in there (okay, its got fins on it) and a burner, plus a few stats for safety, I don't really see how one can break in any way that can't be fixed. Assuming, of course, that the parts can still be obtained.

Reply to
Ivan Dobsky

I'm responsible for 8 combi boilers and 3 'traditional' back boilers; the facts are that combis fail about once every 2 years each; PCB's/fans/timers mostly whereas the old type back boilers just work without fuss (oldest is

27 years). Okay the pumps and timers on a back boiler will wear out but at least with you can choose a cheap generic replacement rather than be tied to a special part in a combi. The worst are the 'energy efficient' condensing boilers, as added to all the other combi faults you get, add freezing of condensate pipes, a total PITB. I now have a firm policy that old tech is best for boilers so I repair always rather than replace. Also dont be fooled (as many do) by over-insentivised comission hungry British Gas (and others) gas fitters saying 'this is nearly 10 years old so must be replaced'. It makes me cringe when I see reasonably modern boilers coming out replaced by something which will be less reliable!
Reply to
Mitch

If there are no compelling reasons that you need to change it, its unlikely to be cost effective to change just on efficiency grounds alone unless you are using a huge amount of gas (i.e. several hundred pounds a month).

There are pros and cons to old boilers... Ones that are still going, are often reliable, and simple beasts. They don't need much maintenance, and what they do need is often replacement of fairly generic parts. However there is the risk that if something important fails, then parts may be hard to find.

Its also difficult to just make a like for like change to a boiler. Chances are you will need to update various other parts of your system when you do change. However you will end up with a more controllable system, with better room temperature control, and (usually) lower gas bills.

Reply to
John Rumm

If its a vented system, then the normal problem is that the content of the F&E tank is open to the air - hence there is a way for some new oxygen to get in there...

Not much since you are (hopefully) not adding fresh water all the time

yup, that's you stuffed! ;-))

Reply to
John Rumm

Its worth noting that combis are not the only type of boiler out there.

Also when talking about combis, one ought to be comparing them to not only your alternative boiler, but the complete hot water heating system and its reliability in addition to that of the boiler.

That's a failure to install the thing according to the makers instructions. No reason for it to freeze if you do it properly.

Reply to
John Rumm

I have an old boiler but with TRVs + electronic roomstat and would prefer eventually to simply replace the boiler for the most reliable condenser available. (I understand the gas supply would need upgrading)

Would you be prepared to make a suggestion as to make and model. It presently supplies 7 radiators in a basic semi, but I wonder about the heat loss in the kitchen when the old one's replaced, which presumably would have to be compensated for! I often wondered if this is considered when calculating the savings.

Andy C

Reply to
Andy Cap

Of course not. The "savings" are, IMNHO, greatly exagerated.

Reply to
Huge

Why would the gas supply need updating? The pipe size dictated by the boiler's power rather than its technology as such.

The usual recommendation is to buy a decent make, and go for the best warranty you can find. However it does depend on circumstances... (i.e. getting fitted, or fitting yourself etc)

Yup heat "wasted" from the casing of a new boiler is very much less than that of old ones. Depending on where the old one was installed this can be a mixed blessing. If you were relying on the boiler's heat to warm the room its in, then it is advisable to add a rad (or kick space heater) to replace it.

Reply to
John Rumm

OK. That's a wait and see then.

Wont be fitting it. To much like hard work for me now ! :-{

I like the idea of the kick-space heater, but routing the pipework would be tricky. Anyway it's something to bear in mind. Thanks.

Reply to
Andy Cap

The reality is that most condensing boilers cannot cope with a very cold spell, as shown in 2010 when British Gas had I think 10000 callouts to frozen condensate pipes in one county alone. I doubt all 10000 were installed incorrectly!

Reply to
Mitch

my B-i-L has one in Winnipeg where for 6 months of the year outside temperatures are well below freezing. It works. I wonder why?

Reply to
charles

My guess would be condensate handled internally. E.g. into a drain somewhere within the building. Further, that is exactly what I would try to achieve if I were involved in fitting a new boiler.

Reply to
polygonum

its probly built and installed for the correct temps.

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

I sounds very much like most of them were... typically loft installations with condensate pipes in unheated spaces and not transitioned to larger diameter pipes when they should have been.

There is enough warmth in the boiler to ensure it won't freeze internally. Its what you do after that which counts.

Reply to
John Rumm

Indeed, and what I did on mine. It exits the building in 50mm pipe along with all the other basin and appliance waste water.

Some fitters seem very good at either installing the boiler in unheated spaces like insulated lofts or garages, and then failing to protect (and if necessary, heat) the condensate pipe. Alternatively taking the unprotected 22mm pipe outside before connecting it to the eventual waste.

One really crap example was this one:

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The muppet[1] who installed that (CORGI registered!) drilled a hole through the wall, stuck a bit of 15mm pipe through it and left the end just dumping the condensate on the path. The inside he wrapped a few turns of insulating tape around the make the diameter a bit thicker, and then stuffed the free end of the condensate pipe over it. Half the condensate leaked out onto the worktop inside, the rest ran down the wall onto the path!

[1] I am being unkind to muppets here... the bulk of the work was done by the fitters mate, who turned up late, and pissed, and left 5 leaking gas joints when he went home. His mate fixed them the next day, however failed to correct the boiler that was a couple of degrees off the vertical:

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(the pipe is the vertical bit!)

Reply to
John Rumm

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