Oak - 2 questions

[Tim S]

Hi,

Just made up a new door casing:

1:

It occurs to me that 20mm might be a bit on the thin side. This isn't a killer problem - I can EVA some PAR softwood on the back to increase the thickness.

I don't really know the properties of oak - is 20mm thick enough to hang door hinges on or shall I proceed to bond/screw an 18mm PAR layer on the back before fitting to the wall?

Question 2:

What's the name of the tool that you use to extract little wood plugs from scrap - that the plugs can be used to plug fixing holes later? Do you use a really small holesaw or is there actually a special widget?

Ta

Tim

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Plug cutter. It produces a tapered plug with a radiused bottom. Missus. ;-) Screwfix do sets which will cover most screw head sizes for not a lot.

[Cash]

Use possibly as a last resort - and if you do, you could use the frame packings (behind the fixings) to help hold this in place while the glue is drying.

Also, remember *NOT* to use steel or iron fixings in oak, as the tannic acid in it will rust them (even under the plugs that you intend to use) - use non-ferrous fixing of your choice (usually brass)

If you are only using a light (egg crate) internal door, then 20mm will be enough (try and slip a piece of packing behind the frame where the hinges will go just in case [his can be skew-screwed through the edge of the packing into the frame using *brass* screws if you want to make sure]).

If you are using a heavier door, I would suggest that you revert to your 'plan A' with the PAR without question. BTW a 'normal' lining would be some

35mm thick.

A plug cutter (choose the diameter that fits the head of the screw) - if you go to the dreaded B&Q, you will be able to buy a set that consists of the plug cutter, and a combined pilot drill and countersink to suit the diameter of the plug to give a neater finish. Remember to cut the plugs from the scraps of the lining that you have used - and take care when you fit them, to get the grain of the plug running the right way to get the best finish).

As usual, someone may come along with a better idea, but I hope this helps

Cash

[dennis]

If you fit more fixings with packing behind the casing the wall will support it and keep it rigid.

Its a plug cutter

> Ta

[John Rumm]

It should be plenty - especially when fixed in place and the architraves are on to add some weight.

Fix the boards in the centre with packers behind.

leaves scope for fine tuning the appearance with a few wedges later if you need to.

Question 2:

There is a widget called a plug cutter. Use it in a drill press to make plugs etc.

part no 72650)

Note that most of the main fixings can be hidden behind the door stops anyway. So its only the fixings in the stops you may need to hide. (assuming you are not painting). A few lost head nails usually sort the architraves. (take care not to use something that will stain the oak)

[The Natural Philosopher]

Dry oak indoors will not corrode screws. Not in your lifetime, anyway, use galvanized under plugs.

20mm of oak is tougher than 50mm of softwood.

[Tim S]

Thanks John and everyone else.

The Screwfix plug cutters seem to have dire reviews so I'm off to Axminster - but thanks for the pointers, at least I knew what to search for :)

Thanks for the other info regarding oak. As one frame is for the bathroom, I'll play it safe with stainless steel screws (they don't make brass long enough for this particular fixing).

I liked the wiki on door framing - have loads of plastic packers so I'll use these largely - but I can cut wedges too from scrap. My Metabo sliding mitre saw is cutting very nicely with a nice new fine toothed TCT blade.

One of the door frames has an oversized hole in the wall so I'll have to pack this one with extra wood - I'll pack it on the hinge side for good measure.

BTW and OT - noticed that Toolstation have some interesting low expansion foam for celotex board fixing - I'll pick up some on the way and try it out.

Cheers

Tim

[Stuart Noble]

IME the TS "low expansion" foam goes all over the shop, just like the standard stuff. You don't get the smooth delivery you would from a cartridge type product so it's a bit hit and miss what ends up where.

[The Natural Philosopher]

I buy packs of premade oak plugs meself.

My local BM carries them. They are available online too.

[Cash]

Sorry to contradict you Natural Philosopher, but it will - and the last time I looked, galvanising is almost as good as non-ferrous, at least until the galvanising disappears.. ;-)

Cash

[The Natural Philosopher]

Which proves my point?

[Tim S]

Thanks to everyone - that went better than planned (!)

Photos tomorrow...

But, long and short:

I drove to Axminster in Sittingbourne (Kent) and after a short spate of rolling on the floor in general ecstasy, got these:

sized set).

These seem to work very well in a normal drill in a cheap bench press jig.

The drove to Orpington and went to Toolstation and Screwfix.

Got some meaty Fischer wall plugs and some hairy stainless 110mm 6mm screws and some 40mm 5mm screws.

95 miles later...

Used the screw hole cutter on the side of the casings - half a dozen holes in each. Add clearance holes.

Next - glued and screwed 2 bits of 18x44mm PAR to each side of the casing uprights (back of course) - brass screws and EVA.

Screwed casing top to sides with 40mm SS screws.

Turned out that with the extra 18mm PAR on the casing it was a very snug fit in the hole in the wall which made fitting rather easier.

Squared and levelled up, drilled and screwed to wall and as suggested packed the frame out with wedges of oak chopped off with the combi saw. Had a minor industrial accident by cutting too short a bit of wood which got caught and thrown off nearly taking my finger with it... Serves me right for getting complacent...

End result - dead level, square and utterly rigid - very pleasing result :)

Cheers

Tim

[Roger Mills]

I've been following this thread with interest, but still haven't succeeded in working out what PAR is. Please enlighten me!

[Bob Minchin]

PAR = Planed All Round

see also P4S = Planed 4 Sides

Bob

[Roger Mills]

Thank you! Presumably softwood - pine or somesuch?

[Tim S]

Roger Mills wibbled:

Hi,

it's planed wood - guess it stands for Planed All Round or somesuch

:)

[Tim S]

Roger Mills wibbled:

Yes - something random and soft - the stuff Wickes, B&Q et al sell.

[Bob Minchin]

The term can be applied to any real wood as it defines the result of planing. From the context of the OP, I think he meant softwood when referring to PAR Regularised is another term applied to softwood processing. This means the final sizes of a batch are well matched and is useful for stud work walls to get an even surface. The corners are slightly rounded which is nicer to handle but no good for visible joinery.

I mainly work in hardwoods and buy it rough sawn and air dried and process it myself once the moisture content has stabilised in the final surroundings.

Bob

[Bob Minchin]

Oh you mean Banana wood? lol

Bob

[Tim S]

Bob Minchin wibbled:

Probably!

Actually - Wickes is noticeably better IME than B&Q which is why I get their stuff. Mostly straight and mostly stays straight-ish...