Nothing is ever level or square....

[imanc]

I've been doing a lot of small DIY projects whilst renoving up my new house, over the past few weeks. I'm fairly new to DIY and prior to this house I'd have called out a tradesman out to do even the smallest of jobs.

But I seem incapable of getting stuff perfectly level, or perfectly square.

For instance I just hung a wall mounted TV onto a chimney breast and it's out by about 2mm over about 90cm, despite checking and double checking.

I also fitted a fence and despite checking, rechecking, using a decent quality spirit level and tape measure, the fence posts are very slightly out.

I'm also about to fit a load of shelves in a cupboard under the stairs and am trying to improve my accuracy.

Do you people experience the same problems? With experience do you find it easy to get things pretty much "dead on" level straight etc.? Is there an acceptable tolerance... e.g. I'm assuming 2 mill over 90cm is not acceptable, but maybe over a few meters it would be.

imanc

[Biggles]

Depends to some extent what you are drilling into. Are you drilling a small diameter pilot hole first? It's much easier to be accurate with a small bit than a large one. Once the small hole is drilled the larger bit will follow the line of the smaller hole.

But the obvious question is "does it show?".

Biggles

[Cash]

Welcome to the world of building maintenance.

You will find it impossible to obtain 100% accuracy in everything that you do -especially with spirit levels with bubbles that almost never seem to actually stretch to the guide lines on the glass (or may not even be set 'level' or 'plumb').

As a very old (long retired) tradesman, my advice is [1] don't be pedantic and seek perfection in all that you do, [2] generally get things to 'look right' by the eye rather than trying to get almost every thing perfectly level or plumb (very often the surrounding area is out of level/plumb and putting something perfectly set against that background makes the new work look awful) [3] practice and making mistakes will eventually pay off and things will get easier - but mistakes will always happen.

As for always getting things 'perfectly' square, straight and level in a building - when you find that Utopian building then you will really have found the 'impossible'.

All the best

Cash

[John Rumm]

As do most trades people... the trick is to not worry too much and learn how to compensate elsewhere when you need to.

Most things like that will and elongated fixing hole or similar that will allow a small amount of tweaking of the level. often fixing one end reasonably well before marking up and drilling for the other end can help.

Check your spirit level is bang on - draw a line with it on a wall, then flip it round the other way and do it again - the two lines should be perfectly parallel.

It depends a little on what you are fixing to. Some walls are much easier to get an accurate fixing on than others.

[polygonum]

The world isn't square. :-)

Best thing to do is try to use techniques that permit small adjustments. For example, kitchen cupboard fixings often have screws that can take up a few mm. Inventiveness can often overcome imperfections.

[Alexander Lamaison]

Welcome to the battle.

Nothing *is* ever level or square. You just do the best you can. In fact, sometimes you purposely do less than the best you can, just to match up with the existing wonkiness.

I used to loathe fixing anything to masonry because my holes always ended up miles away from where I tried to put them. The trick I learned was to use an old centre punch (always in my tool belt) to bang a dent where I want the hole to go. Much easier to adjust slightly if the first bang didn't end up quite right, and the drill bit doesn't wander as it goes in. Now all my holes are bang on target.

... jinxed it, haven't I? :|

Alex

[Alexander Lamaison]

Hinges are the worst. Every time a cupboard door won't close because an old-fasioned hinge is 0.3mm off, I remember why Euro hinges were invented.

Alex

[polygonum]

Indeed - and, in my view, it is well worth paying the extra for good, easily adjustable ones such as some of the Blum range. Even I managed to fit cupboard doors that work fine. :-)

[Dave Liquorice]

Or picking screws that are slighly smaller than the hole so have a bit "play" in them.

That's probably the best tip, no matter how carefully you measure the object and measure the marks they will never be exactly right. With one end fixed you can get the hole for the other marked where it *needs* to be not where it ought to be. You can also make sure that the work looks right as well, even if not exactly level or WHY.

The center punch (nail, WHY...) to start the hole is also a good one.

[PeterC]

This house still has a fair bit of woodchip paper (I know...!) so I start off with a wood drill just in to the plaster - masonry bits shift on the wood chips. Outside there are rustic bricks, so it's necessary to chisel a small flat area before using a drill.

[Muddymike]

I always fix the bracket/batten whatever with one screw first, level it, then drill through the other fixing holes with a small masonry drill as a pilot hole. Take the bracket/batten whatever down again and properly drill out to correct size.

Mike

[PeterC]

This is how I do it, except for Aldi's towel rails. There are 2 brackets to go on the wall but the rail then mounts on with grub-screwed covers, so the holes are hidden when the rail's in place - oh, the brackets hace about half a mm of 'forgingness' as well and have to be orientated closely. I offered up the rail with one end fixed and drew round the other shroud, then tried to get the bracket concentric with the mark. It worked, twice! I've a shelf with the same brackets but might have run out of that packet of luck that I had.

[GMM]

Always remember though - If you do things as carefully as possible, you soon become your own worst critic and 90+% of the issues you know about in the jobs you do will never be spotted by anyone else (so don't tell anyone!)

[Grimly Curmudgeon]

Nothing ever is and the only ones who let it bother them are too anal to talk to. You develop a variety of techniques to minimise the errors and diguise those that do appear. Look at any building - see all those corner pieces, flitch panels, upright details, mouldings, cornices, etc? They're all there to hide dodgy finishing where nothing was as expected - the cunning architects/builders made a 'feature' out of them, over the years.