Non Linseed Oil Putty Source

[Colin]

Hi,

Does anyone know where I can get some putty for my windows that does NOT contain linseed oil.

Thanks, Colin

[info]

[stuart noble]

Unibond do an acrylic putty but I don't think all the sheds stock it. Last place I saw it was in a Focus store. A geat improvement on traditional putty.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Butyl putty is avaialable most bui8lders merchants.

[Colin]

Thank everyone. I'll have to phone around on Monday.

The reason I want non-linseed oil putty is because of the hungry crows around here can strip the putty from the bottom half of a window in a couple of days.

Cheers, Colin

[The Natural Philosopher]

Oh. They eat Butyl a bit as well.

Mix in some cyanide.

[Stephen Hull]

[snip]

I believe mixing pepper in the putty stops the birds from eating it.

Steve.

[Colin]

I have tried mixing Jeyes fluid. This seems to work after a couple of pecks. Doesn't seem like a very professional solution though...

Colin

[stuart noble]

I guess a bird that will eat dog shit will eat anything.

[Christian McArdle]

I'll be renovating my sash windows soon. I favour water based paints for environmental and security reasons (i.e. I can get four coats on in a day). This means I'm using Glidden Acrylic Gloss. What I've read about Linseed putty is that it needs overpainting with solvent based paints (right onto the glass pane, which looks really ugly). Does the acrylic putty need such overpainting? If it does, can it be done with Acrylic paint and do I need to paint the glass also?

Eventually, I'll double glaze the existing sash frames, but I need a winter of condensation on the windows to convince the other half that 4mm of 50 year old glass is a little stingy.

Christian.

[stuart noble]

I wouldn't put 4 coats of acrylic gloss on anything, let alone sliding sashes, which need to be fairly resilient. A couple of coats of acrylic primer would be better, followed by one thin coat of the gloss. I prefer oil based for the topcoat but the white does "yellow" in time. Acrylic gloss doesn't, but it's a very soft coating.

Those glass scrapers give you a nice sharp finish with an overlap of 3mm on to the glass. Looks good because it hides all the grotty bits in the rebate. You also don't have to worry about painting straight, which saves a lot of time.

No. You can leave it to harden, which only takes a few hours, and overpaint with acrylic primer.

Looks neater. I usually cut back the primer with the scraper and gloss just short of the edge. Gloss films can tear and give you a slightly jagged edge.

In that case you'll have to replace or supplement the sash weights to cope with the extra load. You'll also lose a lot of the internal detail on the moulding, which is half the attraction. I'm with the other half on this one :-)

[Christian McArdle]

Obviously, the majority of the thickness would be made up in primer. I was planning on 2 coats of primer and 2 of gloss. Would 3/1 be better, then?

Well, I do hate the yellowing. Also, the problems incurred by using a paint system that requires a full 24 hours between coats whilst I have no windows, outweighs the benefit, I feel. On the other hand, will the Acrylic be totally useless? It is designed for exterior use, but presumably the worry is that it will rub off when the window is operated?

Sounds good.

Excellent. Much better than those horrible hand painted 0.5-1cm overlaps we have at present.

Obviously. However, even with the existing weights it would be an improvement. We did find a few remains of sash cord, in the old ones. I'm amazed the bottom sash survived me opening the window on the first day. My eardrums didn't.

Well, if we get through the winter without nasty mouldy condensation, I'll not bother. I'm not too worried above U-values, just condensation. I was told by a local glazing company that they could make sealed units 14mm thick, so there would still be some moulding left on the vertical bar if we did go ahead. There are no issues on the side beading, which isn't particularly decorative.

I'll need double glazed sashes on the front of the house, though. A previous owner put white uPVC in an overt attempt to annoy the neighbours. (They managed to get the council to remove the shed he placed in the small front garden, but they couldn't touch the windows). I'll need to examine them to see if the sash boxes are still there. I think replacements would be sufficiently major to incur the need for a building control notice, though.

Christian.

[jerrybuilt]

Why do you need that much paint? Why can't you undercoat, leave overnight, top-coat?

Acrylic putty should be overpainted. It is normal to lap the paint up the glass approx. 1/8". This should not notice, let alone stand out ("be ugly"). The advantage of putty is that the linseed oil in iy bonds to and also protects the timber of your sash frame.

You will need new weights, and there is likely to be a difficulty in fitting DG units to the frames, although it can be done. You might be better off having someone make new frames up, which shouldn't break the bank. If not, you will need to rout out the existing frames and ensure the GUs are fitted correctly. It is very worthwhile draught-proofing these windows (but NOT the botom or meeting rails if you've got single glazing). Mighton, who I've mentioned before, have suitable products.

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[Christian McArdle]

Well, the instructions suggest 2 coats of acrylic undercoat and 2 coats of acrylic top coat for exterior applications.

If you reckon that Acrylic is in no way suitable for windows, what would your painting plan be for a solvent paint (presumably micro-porous)? It would be back to bare wood and need priming. I can probably live without windows for one night. Then the windows have to be installable before 8pm the next day. I thought it would need primer, 2 x undercoat and 1 top coat, taking several days. I assume I can't use a solvent topcoat on acrylic undercoat (or that I could, but wouldn't get the advantage of the microporous paint).

P.S. while we are still on windows, do you know where you can get sticky backed plastic to frost my bathroom window? (or an alternative system to actually replacing the panes with frosted glass). I'm now tired of the neighbours giving me the knowing nod.

Christian.

[stuart noble]

In general you use as much primer as it takes to get the colour, and the thinnest possible coat of gloss, particularly with acrylics where the topcoat is the weak link.

It's better not to gloss the edges at all. Leave those primed and rub a little candle wax on the parting/staff beads. Acrylic is great for exterior stuff because it stays white and, from a distance, looks like proper paint. Close up it looks more like a layer of cheap plastic.

You wouldn't be able to open the windows though.......

I've always found that heat and ventilation is the only way to cure that. Sure, DG raises the surface temperature of the glass but the excess moisture will just condense on the next coolest surface. Leaving the heating on an extra half hour in the morning with the windows slightly ajar is often enough. On really misty mornings, wiping with kitchen roll is quick and easy. I have sliding sashes with no real condensation problems, but a few doors away their windows are always steamed up on winter mornings. They do have 4 young kids but I suspect the heating goes off too early as well.

[stuart noble]

[stuart noble]

You can secure the sashes in the box easily with 2" nails. One in the box is enough to hold the top sash up and one either side in the parting bead groove will stop it coming forwards. Putting them in back to front/ upside down is a good way to work on the outside of the sash from indoors. It means you can take them in and out as often as you like, and the box acts as a kind of vertical workbench. This way you wouldn't have a deadline either. IME you'll find loads of unexpected bits of filling/sculpting that will ruin any schedule you might have.