I've noticed that a lot of new houses have the old style outside soil drain stacks, usually in black. They look horrible. Has anyone an explanation for this? I thought that inside soil drains were adopted 30-35 years ago.
Terry D.
The pipes running down the outside of the walls may not be soil pipes, they may only be rain water pipes from the guttering on the roof. What diameter of pipes are they ? Anything less than 110 mm in diameter and they are rain water drainage.
diagonal feeds into the vertical stack, presumably from en-suites, cloakrooms etc. The rainwater guttering was separate, so I'm convinced that these were soil drainage.
Terry D.
The plastics that are used today are not really susceptible to frost damage or weathering, so the pipework can be taken outside the property again, unlike the cast pipes of yester' year. They are also more secure as people find it difficult to climb up them without them pulling out the wall or folding up with weight, so this to allows the new plastics to be designed for external use again.
They do look horrible on some sites, but they can be painted to help them match in with the surroundings. Saying that, some councils are going back to the old style of black pipework everywhere to help new builds blend with the old.
On Mon, 24 May 2004 13:26:27 +0100, "Terry D" strung together this:
I think the main reason, going on the fact that they're on new houses, would be cost. If it is a few quid cheaper then the larger housebuilders will do it that way instead.
After the big freeze up of 1962-3 they changed the Regs. Back at that time all stack pipes were CI so any water running down the inside wall of the stack would turn to ice and freeze, so to stop this ever happening again the regs were changed. More recently, as another poster says, it was decided that with uPVC being universal there was now no real problem with outside stacks if that's what builders wanted to do.
As I should have realised, it's just an easy way to save a few quid on the build costs.
Several months ago, I visited a show house which had an exterior soil stack. Strangly, when questioned, the sales representative, although very friendly, had absolutely no idea as to the reason for this. I'm still looking for an answer, apart from cost.
Terry D.
It may just depend on the builder's preference. If it goes outside you've got all those holes to make through the external walls followed by making good afterwards but you can then defer putting in the drains until the houses are almost finished. If you want internal soil stacks you need to do all the drainage at the outset and it's not unknown for it to be disturbed by site traffic (ready mix truck parked on manhole etc)
The old cast iron pipes would crack after a freeze. This is highly unlikely to happen on a plastic stack. Water inside may freeze but it will not fracture the pipe. Also it takes a real heavy freeze to block a drain. Although a trickle leak down it will build up and block the drain.
Having the stack on the outside also acts like a large thermals bridge. They can suck heat out of the house. Best having them inside using HepVo traps and/or a Durgo valve to prevent penetrations through the roof.
Right that confirms it. The Atlantic Conveyour will switch off in the next 20 years, meaning that the UK will get the winters it should for it's latitude...
On Mon, 24 May 2004 13:26:27 +0100, a particular chimpanzee named "Terry D" randomly hit the keyboard and produced:
External: Pros- can be accessed easily; any leaks are immediately evident. Cons - aesthetics.
Internal: Pros- unobtrusive. Cons- any leaks, or access for rodding may require removal of the plasterboard; noise.
I find the boxed in sections in the corners of rooms more obtrusive than external pipes. They're a right pain to fit kitchen units around.
And those nice new tiles you just fitted...
Especially when, as happened to us once, a black bird gets the loft and hence into the boxing-in surrounding the stack!
MBQ
Also a freezing problem. Also could deteriorate in direct sunlight.
Less prone to freezing. Less prone to UV light deterioration. Can be further into the building, so toilets and bath not always on the outside walls. Does not act as a thermal bridge xtract heat from the hosue if AAV and/or HepVo tarps are used. No penetrating roof when AAVs are used.
Properly designed, rodding can be done without removing plasterboard cover. Noise can be virtually eliminated by lagging the stack in sound absorbing material.
But that's still unlikely to cause to a problem with a uPVC stack IMO. Imagine a 6m CI stack sealed at the bottom, temp -5C and tip in a basin full of warm water. Effect of temperature within stack, almost nothing (I would guess). Do the same on a PVC stack and the inner face of the walls probably gets to above freezing so there never will be an ice build up.
If it is -5C outside and the stack is laying here unused for 10 hours, all the plastic walls will be around -5C
If the Atlantic Conveyor does switch off -5C will be warm during the winter think, Moscow, think -20C or lower...
It's not so much large quantities warm used water as the dripping tap. Back in the early 80's I had the waste from the bath and wash hand basin freeze in Bristol. That was PVC waste to the stack not sure what the stack was or where the blockage was but it took a week to clear...
Do you expect the sea around Britain to freeze ? If not, surely we would still retain some vestage of a climate associated with being surrounded by water, unlike Moscow. Latitude isn't everything.
Yes but because PVC has a very low thermal capacity and better insulation than CI it will take a minimal amount of heat to raise the temperature of the inside wall to above freezing.
I've noted that both the Keston Celsius and Glowworm combis I've installed recently have had syphons so that the condensate is released periodically in decent amounts rather than a drip, drip, drip.
I'm not a climatologist but some of those that are and have investigated what may happen do say that there will be sea ice for a few (tens?) miles around southern Britain, let alone further north.
Agreed Moscow possibly a bad example due to it's continental climate. How about coastal areas of Newfoundland or Labrador?
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