have a 3 point locking system (which is a good
had a break-in via a PVC front door?
doors can't have a 3 point locking system.
to splinter under force.
Do you mean a kick to the uPVC panels or the box sections? The panels look weak-ish to me. But the box sections look quite strong but I was concerned about the plastic weld joints. Are they vulnerable?
How big is the channel routed down the door? IE. does it weaken the door? Andy
They're made out of an aluminium box section - usually with one or more double-glazed glass panels. For an outside door, a good standard of insulation is usually required (even if not in your case). This is usually achieved with a thermal break - where the box section is in two half-boxes joined together with resin. I have also seen aluminium doors with a thin layer of uPVC cladding on the inside.
You didn't say anything about wood-grain in the original question - nor did you say whether it was to be partially or wholly glazed. I was assuming - rightly or wrongly - that it was to be glazed. I have never seen a wood-grain aluminium door. The usual finish is powder coating in either white or brown - which is very smart, but looks nothing like wood grain. In my view, wood-grain effect uPVC is not very convincing - the best way of achieving wood grain being to make it out of *wood*!
Umm not sure what's meant by rebated door? Can you explain? My concern with wooden doors and frames is that the wood is weak around the lock due to the amount of wood removed to fit the lock. Would you agree? The Ironmongery website is due to be re-launched in June, so I'll keep an eye on it. Andy
Not necessarily. I have a porch door with an outside handle - so we can get under cover in a hurry when it's raining. There's another lockable door between the porch and the house. We only lock the porch at night or when staying away from home.
Hi Steve - yes, I don't know why particularly. I'll perhaps have to take another look.
Kev
"Andy Whitfield" wrote in message news:d8rchv$3cr$ snipped-for-privacy@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk...
Nope - it's up to you to specify how you want it to operate. My porch door can be opened from the outside with the handle when the door is unlocked although the actual house door cannot of course. I have two sets of friends, however, who had new UPVC front doors and were never asked how they wanted them configured. As a result, unless the physically lock the door from the inside, anyone can just turn the outside handle and walk in !
Kev
Sorry, didn't mention no window in door. What else are the panels made of? aluminium sheet?
Because it's in a block of flats I have to a door of similar appearance to the other original front doors. Doesn't matter if uPVC wood grain finishing not very convincing; just has to blend in. My concern about wooden doors and frames, is they are weak around the lock because of the wood removed to fit the lock. I am assuming here wooden doors are hung in to wooden frames but maybe I can have a steel frame? Andy
Clearly, any house is only as secure as its glass. A brick through a window and you're in (unless you have bars across every window of course). Wooden doors can be attacked with an axe - or a simple ram like the police use to gain entrance to properties. Steel doors in a steel frame are probably the toughest option available but, as has been pointed out - very expensive and not very pretty!
Kev
I'll definitely add that to be list of requirements! Thanks Andy
I live on the top floor, so any burglar would need a 3 story ladder to reach my windows plus overlooked front and back by neighbours. Though whether neighbours would pay any attention to someone climbing in and out of my windows is another matter! Andy
have a limited budget.
much.
I expect you could get one for rather less than that if you find a friendly steel fabricator who likes a challenge.
You've said that several times - but I don't think it's particularly true. A
1/2" slot for a mortice lock inside a 1 3/4" hardwood door still leaves plenty of meat either side.Possibly - but are you trying to create Fort Knox? Obviously you want to take reasonable steps to make it secure - but at the end of the day, if any self-respecting villain is sufficiently determined to get it, he will do so whatever sort of door you've got!
have a limited budget.
too much.
Probably could but then it's not just the door, got to have the frame made as well, plus a 3 point lock has to be bought and installed in the door and then the is the cost of labour to fit everything. As I've been typing these emails, it struck me the is a business opportunity for someone to manufacture steel doors at a lower price. Once built one door and frame, etc then easier to do more. Don't think it's rocket science! ;-) Andy
To me, it is automatic to use both, although I do have a common key system, so it only needs one key.
Colin Bignell
have a limited budget.
much.
doors can't have a 3 point locking system.
to splinter under force.
You could always take the half-way-house between steel and wood - ironwood :)
"Andy Whitfield" wrote in message news:d8rd92$t2u$ snipped-for-privacy@news8.svr.pol.co.uk...
BS 3621 thief-resistant locks will have protection against drilling, bolts that are resistant to hacksaws and will be resistant to being picked. While there may be multi-point locks that offer equivalent protection, there is no provision in BS 3621 for them, so there is no easy way to tell which they are. That is why the Police do not recommend them. However, your insurers may accept a multi-point lock as being a suitable alternative to a BS 3621 lock.
Colin Bignell
Sorry I've repeated myself but I assume most 'posters' are more likely to read replies to their posts rather than all the other replies. Would also need similar frame width for the lock keep. I don't know if it would be possible to fit a door frame with 1 3/4" wood.
Lol, not Fort Knox. I like to know my options and how secure each one is and, of course, cost. My main reservation about uPVC was the strength of the plastic (particularly the panels) and the strength of the plastic welds. As you can see there are differing opinions on the strength of uPVC. Andy
have a limited budget.
much.
a 3 point locking system (which is a good
Not possible to say. They are made in thousands of sundry small workshops around the country. Take a look here:
My late Mother had one and she got broken into by a burglar with just a screwdriver. The "three point locking system" was just a thin 1 cm.steel strip a bit shorter than the door with 3 lugs on, which engaged into V shaped receptacles each fastened to the plastic frame with a single self tapping screw ! He simply used the screwdriver through the soft foam rubber weather seal to lift/force/strain the long steel strip and all 3 points obligingly released at the same time. :(
doors can't have a 3 point locking system.
But they can have a single good insurance grade lock and 2 mortice rack bolts, top and bottom. Oh, *and* a good stout chain.
to splinter under force.
Mortise locks are generally more secure but a good one with hardened steel plates to resist drilling requires more wood to be removed, similarly the re-inforced box staple (that the bolt shoots into) needs a lot of wood to be removed from the frame.
So my choice for an average weight of door would be a high quality insurance grade (BS3621) rim lock with an automatic deadbolt, which will be easy to fit and doesn't weaken the door.
One such is the Chubb 4L67.
Plus the 2 mortice rack bolts and a chain. Total cost, about £80
BS3621 is the gold standard in locks. Such a lock is drill proof, pick proof, hacksaw proof, and must be able to withstand "N",000 pounds on the face of its bolt, and have many thousands of different keys. Totally outclassing yer average druggie in wall climbing mode chasing his next fix.
Don't be put of by the fitter who will probably want to fit a dirt cheap builder's lock out of the back of his van, thereby not have to read the instructions and mess about with paper templates.
Use good large solid drawn brass butt hinges.
DG
to splinter under force.
However it's not particularly difficult or expensive to put a bit of steel reinforcement in, especially adjacent to the box staple, or even a sheet of steel over the whole door.
Owain
also tend to splinter under force.
Most box staples can be secured directly to the masonary behind if you are installing a new frame as I think the OP was
That's not so pretty though :-)
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