I have been given a new electric meter. Its 10 foot above my head so reading it is a exercise in logistics anyway. I have to climb up and try to see it but each display only stays on for a few seconds when you press them.
Its white, the main face shows a single reading which constantly tics over.
To find out what is what you have to get up and press a blue button at the top of the meter.
This then gives ( no order here because I cant recall now) a) a date press again b) a time press again c a reading marked R press again d) a reading marked T
Can someone tell me which T and R stand for ? Which is day and which is night. I am trying to read this meter because there is something wrong with the way its reading ( or something wrong with the house wiring) because I am using 200 quids worth of electric a month and I have nothing on. It seems to be something coming on at night or the night readings are out ( according to the bill) but I dont know which is which any more.
It used to be N and L and you could see them both clearly on the old meter. Now I cant see anything and I don't which is which.
So does anyone have one of these meters and can they tell me what R and T mean? Which is day and which is night.?
Ask them to come back and mount it somewhere more suitable aka safe to access - you consider it to be a safety risk where it is, and will go through the HSE if they don't...
It should be within 6 feet of the incoming supply / main fuse, on the same wall (ideally), so hopefully that would give scope for it to be resited. You also want an isolator fitting so you can work on your own equipment without having to call them out to pull the main fuse.
You may find you'll have to provide your own tails from the consumer unit to the isolator switch.
If you have an isolator switch, switch it off, and see if it's still recording use.
Are you in a flat, or otherwise shared accomodation of any sort ? - it could be that the wiring is unbeknownst to you, shared with another.
Take readings now, photograph them if possible, holding a newspaper so that the date is showing.
Check if the meter is using units against both readings - it could be that their timeswitch or radio telemeter (switches on receipt of a radio signal) is knackered.
"Colin Wilson" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@news.motzarella.org...
Thankyou all for the advice. I have now worked out that R stands for day rate and T is night rate. I have systematically switched everything off and established the problems may lie with one storage heater which unfortunately tends to be the one that has been kept on most of the year ( its unseasonably cold and permanently raining).
Its now switched off and the meter has dropped to 20 units use overnight ( and that includes the water heater/ immersion which comes on for two hours.) . Day usage being 16 but we had an electric fire on because of the cold yesterday. That is significantly lower than it was running.
If I extrapolate the figures for 90 days that would give a night usage of
18473 units. The bill for last quarter showed a usage of 5268 overnight. You can see why I am worried!
The day rate works out roughly right given that yesterday was a Sunday and usage was higher. During the week nothing much would be used during the day ( with the heating on at night the fire would not have been in use either).
I need to get new heaters ( the ones I have are 1978 vintage)
Before anyone says anything...... Gas and LPG are not options here. No mains gas and nowhere to site the LPG tanks with H&S regulations. The price of oil makes that not worth the outlay. I will probably have to open up a fire place and put coal in although the cost of that is considerable now ( having checked it recently and noted that several of my neighbours have just put in storage heaters changing from oil) or find cheaper heaters.
Have a look at air sourced heat pumps (e.g. the air conditioners in B&Q but find somewhere better). You get about three times as much heat out as the power you put in and they don't cost that much. Bear in mind they will cost you more if you use them to cool in the summer.
A thought but night storage heaters use electricity that is about 1/3 the cost of the electric during the day... Overall you might not make any savings on running costs. It would be possible to change to a non-E7 tarrif though and get all power at a price about double the night rate and
2/3 the day rate.
Air sourced might not work that well in the winter, tendancy to ice up but would be more flexable than night storage heaters. Heat when you want it. Having said that some modern storage heaters are much more sophisticated and better insulated than old ones. They allow you to set when you want the heat. So no more sudden cold snaps and the things running out of heat early evening or sudden warm periods and having to open the windows...
Swings and roundabouts.
As to LPG or oil, probably wise to avoid ATM. Crude prices have fallen recently, now about $110/barrel from $140 in July. 28sec oil has dropped but is still around 52p/l.
Probably better to put in a wood burner or multifuel stove with a boiler. Much better at getting the heat where you want it than an open fire. You will need space to store the fuel though.
Not surprised oil is almost but not quite the same cost as normal domestic electricity these days. I don't like storage heaters though, mainly for the reasons outlined in another message. A "cold snap" up here means overnight mins of -10C... The cottage (all electric) needs new heaters, so I'll be looking at the more sophisticated ones for that.
To maintain a given temperature in a given room you'll need the same energy input no matter it's source, you just need to try and pick the cheapest. Un fortunately no energy source is particularly cheap anymore.
if economy 7 then 205 units over 7 hours yields 29.3 units per hour
Thats approximately ten 3kW storage heaters charging constantly flat out over the whole period with no reduction when up to temperature. Either you have a helluva big (and oppressively hot) house or your reading is wrong somewhere. You do have a roof on the house don't you?
With electric heaters all the power input yields heat. OK for older models the degree of control is lacking and the house is hot in the day then cool in the evening but simply renewing the heaters isn't likely to solve this problem. It sounds as though you need to do some more research. Do the readings you are quoting include a decimal point (or two) somewhere that you are missing? The always on heater you mentioned could be expected to use a ball park figure of 20/21 units a night assuming a 3kW element and a full/ high charge thermostat setting such that it charges for the whole of the 7 hours. Your immersion heater will likely be a 3kW element with a thermostat and if on for 2 hours (does it have a separate timer?) then even if the thermostat does not reach satisfaction it could use up to
6 units per night. If your heater is still switched off then where is the other 14 units being consumed during the night period? Have you floodlights or are you heating an exterior building, running a heavy duty sewage treatment plant etc? It is faintly possible but unlikely the new meter is at fault
Good advice but beware the standing charge for "tariff that is not E7". At present I'm (still) trying to sort out why I have a 20% hike (in one quarter) for my night storage heaters, while the other meter (for everything else, was only about 2%! A cynic (i.e. me) might think the elec co want me to switch to E7. btw I have not received an electricity bill for the past 3 quarters even though have written and asked for one (3)! When is it EnergyWatch to get the chop again :-) or rather :-(
With very few exceptions *all* tarrifs have a standing charge of some sort. Either directly stated as so many pence/day or by paying a premium for the first n units per billing period. The amount of the "standing charge" by either method is usually the same or within a penny or so.
Cost of power between a "standing charge" and "no standing charge" versions of the same nominal tarrif are also the same, though I have a sneaky feeling that some do have a little variation these days. The only way to be sure is check the details of the tarrifs with the supplier.
How are you paying? If you haven't had a bill how do you know you are a) paying the right company b) how much to pay them and c) the amount is correct for your useage/tarrif?
If by Direct Debit stop it with your bank, don't tell the supplier. That will normally make them sit up an pay proper attention within a week.
I see one or two of you may know something about storage heaters. Mine are many years old. I do not plan on changing them all but I am pretty sure the meter is being hiked by one particular one which is broken.
I could try and repair it / have it repaired ( thermostat I think) but it is a solder job in this heater and I cannot say I can do that, and I have to find the part. I cant seem to find one . A 1979 heater is probably defunct.
I am looking at a new one for replacement. I have seen Creda ( same make as current but not the same make because Creda is no longer TI) . A Robinson Willey, a Sunhouse, a Dimplex ( I have two smaller dimplex already and have to say they do not impress me but.... ) and something called an Elnur.
Other than it has to be 3.4 KW to replace the existing, has anyone any recommendations for make?
The equipower ones don't have a standing charge. I've recently changed my gas to them, as the 'standing charge' (extra costs on first (large number of) units) with my ols supplier (Npower) more than cancelled out the extra per unit at my current consumption.
I've been with them for a couple of years now for both gas and elec - very impressed with how clearly the bills are laid out* and the telephone service that lets you put in your current reading works brilliantly.
*I work with someone involved with the Plain English Campaign, and I nominated Ebico for both the bills (c/o Southern) and their website
It's highly unlikely that a storage heater will fail in such a way as to draw too much power. That would need a partial short-circuit in one of the elements, which, if it did happen, would rapidly lead to self destruction of the element, ending either in an open-circuit condition, or a dead short across the supply (or to earth) and a blown fuse. It's possible that the input charge thermostat could stick closed but you'd notice that by a rise in the room temperature, or if the heater core became too hot the overheat trip would operate, cutting off power to the whole appliance.
Most storage heater faults are "not working" or "low-output" due to open-circuit elements or operation of the overheat trip.
In an earlier post you said
That's an average of 205 kWh/day, or 8.5 kW continuous (24 hr) loading, or 29 kW loading (120 amps!) over 7 hours. There's no way on earth that a single faulty storage heater could account for consumption like that.
There's probably not a lot to choose between different makes, their construction tending to be similar. It is worth getting the 'automatic' type though, with a room temperature sensing thermostat. Otherwise just look for a good price. I've got two Unidare ones in my workshop outbuilding. These were bought s/h (but only about one year old) and have been trouble-free for the last 12 years or so, touch wood.
Well, sorry but it must have done. I dont know how. I can only quote the fact. I had one heater running to keep the sitting room warm. I have now switched it off and isolated it. It did show signs of overheating I have to admit. It was discoloured and I even changed the plug on it a few months ago when it shorted out and burnt. OK I should have known then. I ignored it.
Since switching that one heater off I am now using on average 3. 5 units of electric during the day ( same as before ) and 7 units at night. I do have an emersion heater running and a dishwasher that cuts in to wash up at 4.00 am each night which makes that figure up. I sometimes also run my washing machine at night too
Whilst I cannot disprove what you suggest. Something was wrong and whatever it was got put right when I turned off that one heater
I have ordered a Robinson Willey auto storage heater for no other reason than its the only one which is small enough to fit the space it has to go into. The new heaters are longer than my old one. Its a good price. I will let you know whether its any good once I have had it and fitted it.
No you extrapolated from one nights reading to 90 days. Any error in that reading would be multiplied 90. Maybe you had a hot bath that night and the water needed to be on for all of it's 2hrs... and it was a cold night, IIRC you said you has a fire on as well...
a) we never take hot baths in this house ( believe me if you saw the bath you would know why). Havent got round to changing that yet. Its showers all round and those showers are done on day rate usually.
b) The weather has not warmed up any here. I have had the fire on and it runs on day rate and pushes that up. No one is up beyond 10.00 pm in the house. I have looked at that too. On a really bad day ( like Tuesday) we ran up 10 on the day rate using electric fires and I also cooked that day.
Since the only figure being run up at a high rate according to the bill is the night rate it has to be the central heating or hot water as those were/ are the only two things running at night and not in the day.
Having switched them off, whatever the figures ( and 5000+ units in three months speaks for itself surely as opposed to a total of just 800 for three months on day rate?) they have shown a significant drop in the night rate usage to less than 10 units a night even when running the washing machine and dishwasher and even an hour on the tumble dryer.
The day rate remains constant at between 3 and 8 units depending on whether we have a fire on and whether I cook ( i.e. run the cooker for an hour and a half cooking cakes etc)
However you want to argue the figures , it doesn't alter the fact that it was the night rate that was up very high ( 5000+ units a quarter) and that has been changed by switching one heater off ( the only one that was actually on at the time) It may not seem reasonable but that is what has happened.
I cant tell you how its happened and I have made the same arguments to myself as you have all made here. I can only think that the damned thing was running 3.5 KW or more all night none stop and it didn't burn out the circuit or trip any safety cut out ( or even burn the house down - which it could have done theoretically if that dangerous a state)
Last night I tried putting a different heater on over night and we used about a £1 of electric in total. It does seem to be the one heater that was at fault.
I am not here to argue or moan . I had a problem. You kindly helped me and I have found that problem, read the meter and sorted it out . I still have to fit this new storage heater this week. That should be interesting as I am not an electrical expert. I can wire a plug though.
If I look at the figures over the last five days ( I have religiously read the meter) we are now using roughly 50% more at night than during the day with the heater on. Which should be about right according to national averages for efficient running.
I guess I should be thankful it was the night rate being run up. God forbid that it had been the day rate being lamped by something. Night rate is 4p a unit. Day rate is 16p a unit ( and 30p for the first 125units) . Just imagine the hike in bill on 5000 units at 16p a unit.
Something just isn't adding up here, even though the night rate consumption seems to have dropped from an extrapolated 18,000+ units per quarter to a much more reasonable figure of 5,000(?). 5,000 units over
90 days is 55 per day and with "the heater" switched off this drops to
The 45 kWh/day saved implies 6.4 kW load if running for the full 7 hours each day. That perhaps suggests that you've switched off two 3.4 kW size heaters, not one. I'm wondering if you've got two heaters wired, rather unconventionally, on one final circuit. Certainly your mention of plugs rings alarm bells as storage heaters should be permanently wired on dedicated individual circuits (except perhaps for the smallest size where two per circuit might be OK). The 24 kWh (3.4 kW) size appliance draws over 13 A, so 13 A wiring accessories shouldn't be used at all, just a 20 A DP switch with flex outlet and a 16 A fuse or MCB in the consumer unit.
I don't. I was just pointing out that extrapolation to 90 days fro one nights reading is likely to be very misleading.
I think you need to look around for a better deal. Our Equipower E7 is
4.27 and 13.18 (+ 5% VAT) and no Tier 1 or 2 rubbish or standing charge either. Have a look at some of the switching sites, going for a paperless, online, monthly fixed direct debit, standing charge (either daily or Tier
1/2) normally gets you the best prices but you really have to look at the actual tarrif details and plug them into a spreadsheet with your useage to see which really is the cheapest. Some tarrifs are now not equal between daily standing charge and "no standing charge" ie Tier 1/2 even if you use all the Tier 1 power. Don't trust the switching sites, they make assumptions that may not apply to you.
I know it doesnt add up. I also know what has happened in terms of the figures.
I'm wondering if you've got two heaters
They are permanently wired. My use of the woprd " plug" means a wall fitting that takes the wire from the heater and allows it to be switched on. All the heaters seem to be wired on the correct curicuit. I only had one heater on. I only had one heater heating up, so even if another one was on it was not heating up anywhere. I have six heaters in total in the house but have only ever used five. The sixth is in a position which makes it impossible to use ( or would make it impossible for me to have a three piece suite or sofa in the sitting room as it is directly the back of the sofa). I have never used the sixth heater . Its a Dimplex 1.7 Kw I think.
The 24 kWh (3.4
Which is more or less what I have
I wonder where people get their lower figures. Is this a regional thing? I have checked the electricity charges from different suppliers in the last week. Whilst Scotush power would come in a fraction cheaper on day rate it on its cheapest with a price fix till 2009 it would hike my night rate and would add a standing charge which is higher than my current one. . My only other choice ( and I am not going to do it) would be to stay manage an online and paperless billing account. I have to say I have gained a lot recently from being able to call up and ask about the problems with the meter reading so I dont want an online account.
There might be cheaper electricity suppliers around but I am guessing they are not im ny area. I have been told powergen are cheaper but they wont supply to me. The others are either 4 - 5 p night rate and about 10p day rate but I believe it has a higher standing charge. That said, they will not supply here.
HomeOwnersHub website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here.
All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.