Do you feel better noiw?
:-)
Although everyone needs a hobby, knocking alternative energy doesn't harm anyone ... bit of a waste of time because it won't convert those with experience ...
Mary
snipped-for-privacy@n75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
Never felt better, thanks for asking. What about yourself?
gy
Nothing wrong with alternative energy for those who want it. I only knock those who seem to think it should be forced upon the rest of us.
Maybe we should have a new electricity tarrif "Economy Wind". Instead of getting cheap night units, you only get power when the turbines are actually capable of generating it.
So you experienced the Texas power cuts? Do share it with us.
MBQ
messagenews: snipped-for-privacy@n75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
Never felt better, thanks for asking. What about yourself?
Nothing wrong with alternative energy for those who want it. I only knock those who seem to think it should be forced upon the rest of us.
I haven't seen anyone do that, either here or anywhere else.
Maybe we should have a new electricity tarrif "Economy Wind". Instead of getting cheap night units, you only get power when the turbines are actually capable of generating it.
So you experienced the Texas power cuts? Do share it with us.
Would you believe me if I did? Or would you aregue with me?
I think I know the answer ...
Off to make dinner now, not depending on electricity of any kind.
Mary
No, that's self abuse. There is a difference. Well... some, anyway.
The message from David Hansen contains these words:
It will indeed but I don't think you can point me at any published figures (you certainly haven't tried) that indicate that any of the established wind farms can claim as much as 35% and as always, even in the future, the major determinent of wind turbine load factor is lack of wind. You can have 100% reliable wind turbines and they would still struggle to get a load factor of more than 35% even out to sea and we still have to see how well they will stand up to the harsh environment out there.
It should be familiar to you. It is one of your pet sources.
Of course you wouldn't. It doesn't square with the tenets of your religion.
But you haven't quoted your source and I don't take anything on trust from you. I suspect that your "exposed" is more green flim-flam. If your "exposed years ago" is anything to go by the source in this case is a crystal ball. 2003 is not long ago and 2005 even closer to the present.
You are clutching at straws. The passage quoted came as close to rubbishing the 35% as you are ever likely to see in an acadamic report where there is genuine uncertainty in the wind.
The message from David Hansen contains these words:
Actually:
"A temporary hole for a few days in contrast to a permanent hole left by the demise of the wind turbines but you are blind to that and would rather no one else thought about it either."
And that was said in response to your:
"Even if the two turbines had a rated capacity of 2MW that left rather less of a hole in the electricity supply than the failure of IIRC a 2400MW coal fired station."
Which was undoubtedly intended to suggest that the outage at Longannet was over an extended period.
Your air of injured innocence just doesn't work.
If I had intended that I would have mentioned the ground works.
Being out by a factor of ten seems to fit the description.
You are sounding and behaving more and more like Dribble these days. Creative editing and false accusations will get you no friends from those on the sidelines.
In message , Grimly Curmudgeon writes
The great Hansen / Drivel debate
Excellent, personal abuse. Do keep it up.
Please eff off as you're a complete plantpot
Excellent, personal abuse. Do keep it up.
Please eff off as you're a complete plantpot
Excellent, personal abuse. Do keep it up.
Please eff off as you're a complete plantpot
Excellent, personal abuse. Do keep it up.
Please eff off as you're a complete plantpot
Excellent, personal abuse. Do keep it up.
Please eff off as you're a complete plantpot
Excellent, personal abuse. Do keep it up.
Please eff off as you're a complete plantpot
...ad infinitum
They do come in groups, and wind doesn't vary significantly across one installation however large.
Andy
Would you please moderate your collation of other posters' comments! SWMBO'd is trying to sleep in the room above where I am reading your post! Keep it up. Caused my some mirth!
So how does a steam boiler fully up to pressure 'tick over'
S/experience/faith and prejudice and no mathematical training/g
messagenews: snipped-for-privacy@e10g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
Shame it fails on all those counts innit?
On Tue, 4 Mar 2008 20:10:44 GMT someone who may be Roger wrote this:-
Excellent, more personal abuse. Do keep it up.
On Tue, 04 Mar 2008 21:23:39 +0000 someone who may be Andy Champ wrote this:-
The average velocity over a relatively long time period doesn't vary significantly, though gusts can do and can be watched progressing past farms on occasion.
However, that's beside the point. While the wind at one farm may be less than forecast it is likely at the same time to be higher at another farm.
The message from David Hansen contains these words:
Your point is beside the point, another red herring in fact. Get the translation velocity wrong and wind speeds changes will indeed lag or lead but forecast the wrong wind speed for one place and the likelihood is that the errors for hundreds of miles around will all be the same sign since they all depend on the predicted pressure gradients in the local disturbance.
And errors in forecasting are a minor blot on the landscape compared with the unavoidable consequence of lack of wind. The 1 hour/90%/5 years nonsense may well be completely accurate but unfortunately it is completely irrelevant. What matters is the situation at the wind farm sites but trying to find out any information about the extent of low/non existent output with the current set-up is possibly impossible.
I drove almost the whole length of Wales at the end of October last year. Not a breath of wind the whole way (not even on the top of a few minor hills) and I doubt very much whether there was a single wind turbine turning either in Wales or in a sizeable chunk of adjacent England and winds would have been light even further afield.
On Tue, 4 Mar 2008 20:07:20 GMT someone who may be Roger wrote this:-
I have come across capacity factors for wind farms up to ISTR 49%, over a period of several years. However, that was on an island exposed to more wind than even Northern Ireland (where the highest capacity factors in the UK are recorded) and is not indicative of what will be achieved elsewhere. However, Scottish Power quote capacity factors of 35%-40% for their modern wind farms.
One of them is the UKERC report, section 3.3.2. That concentrates on the RAE's assumption that dedicated backup would be needed for wind, which is mince.
I recall another one where the authors said they had interviewed the authors of the RAE report and they had been somewhat confused about the different types of backup and were unable to give a convincing answer about several aspects of their report. It was expressed in academic language but was very cutting about the RAE's report.
Excellent, more personal abuse.
People can read the report themselves and consider the veracity of your assertion.
Not a bad idea. IIRC there is unused switching control in the radio teleswitches used for some E7 installations so it is practical.
The cost per unit would also reflect the true cost of generating that power and there would be a maximum "distribution distance" as well so if you wanted this tarrif the turbines would have to be within say 20 miles of you. The latter requirement is so that the turbines are not forced onto people who don't want them or into areas of the country were they are not apprpiate, no NIMBYs on this tarrif...
Only until this happens :)
Well it's not dark by 1700 but that is a rather sweeping statement. What powers the compressors/pumps for you mains gas or water supply?
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