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New boiler needed?

< snip tripe justifying dangerous incompetence >

I am a slave to fashion. You should see my tuckers collection.

Reply to
IMM
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Rubbish.

You can get vertical flue options for many boilers, and for others you can do flues and intakes using 50mm high temperature PVC waste pipe, typically over several tens of metres quite often.

Condensing boilers do produce a plume of water vapour and on some it is more than others, so you may want to have it directed away from windows etc.

However, there are now plenty of flue options that can help achieve this.

Take a look at the installer section of several manufacturer web sites and you will find these easily.

If you think that your installer is basically OK in terms of doing a good job then fine, although he doesn't seem to be at all up to date. Otherwise, I would start looking at other fitters with more recent experience.

The technology is all there, and it's good - unfortunately some of the practitioners are more than a touch conservative/.

Reply to
Andy Hall

Glad to know you learnt something from my controlled experiment, then. But it's usual to give a credit when reporting other's findings.

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

< snip babbling from an incompetent >
Reply to
IMM

I'm guessing that you guys have met before :-)

Reply to
PM

No!! Never in a million years. I would never associate with such ignorance.

Reply to
IMM

Thanks for all the replies. Now that the old boiler is working again I'm half tempted to do a bit of research and do the job myself (apart from the gas connection). Any reason why this sort of job should not be undertaken personally?

Reply to
PM

Why didn't you then?

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

Sounds like a good move. Many of the makers web sites have PDFs of the installation manuals on them, so you can get a feel for the work involved in advance.

There is plenty of information in the gas fitting and sealed CH FAQs (see Ed's siglines in his message above). Plus have a go with google groups and look at past messages on the topic in this group. You may decide that you are sufficiently competent to legally do the gas fitting as well.

Reply to
John Rumm

Hmmm... don't think I would be happy doing the gas pipes myself, I would still need to get them checked afterwards so I'll probably leave that bit to the pros. The FAQs are good, I'll rummage for more info. Expect to see more posts from me on this subject!

Cheers

Pete

Reply to
PM

..

But hopefully when the big builders start buying 1000s of them the prices will fall, just as they have for combis wrt non-combis.

Reply to
John Stumbles

Ed Sirett's gas fittings FAQs will help you answer that Q for yourself.

Reply to
John Stumbles

Big builders have been buying them for the past 3 to 4 years. Putting a condensing boiler in adds towards the SAP count. Individual plumbers do not put condensing boilers in.

Reply to
IMM

What is the SAP count please? And why don't individual plumbers put condensing boilers in?

Ta

Pete

Reply to
PM

The SAP (Standard Assessment Procedure) Rating is a score given to flats and houses that reflects the cost of heating and DHW/m2. Obviously putting in a more efficient boiler helps get a better score, but I'm less than convinced that many buyers are influenced by this.

Some early condensing boilers (q.v. Potterton Envoy!) were horrendously unreliable and installers who installed them decided never to touch one again, seeing the problems as being 'condensing' rather than 'badly designed condensing'. So in many cases the installer is persuading customers against them, and of course many customers want their boiler replaced for as little money as possible, which means non condensing. Of course there are customers who understand the issues and will pay more because they know it will save them money in the future.

Reply to
Tony Bryer

I'd guess it's less work for a plumber to always fit identical boilers. Many still recommend Potterton from the time they were a decent make - many years ago.

What a plumber recommends won't necessarily be the best for your individual requirements. He is likely to be influenced mainly by profit - ie ease of installation, good discounts etc.

IMM is a plumber in all but name.

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

In your opinion, would a condensing boilder be the way to go, and what make(s) should I look for/avoid?

Ta

Pete

Reply to
PM

Yes. Go for a condensing type, if at all possible.

The most important features are:

  1. Must have a single gas->water heat exchanger, not a bolt on additional exchanger.
  2. Must have a downward burner (or outward firing cylindrical burner) so that the condensate doesn't drip on it.

Good makes:

Worcestor Bosch (Greenstar, NOT CDi) Vaillant Glowworm (previous models bad, current good) MAN Ideal Icos/Isar

Christian.

Reply to
Christian McArdle

The SAP is a rating that new homes have to conform to. It is based on the energy consumption of a building. A condensing boiler uses less energy. They can put in a non-condesning boiler, but then will have to install more insulation, etc to reach the SAP. A few hundred quid on a condenser raises the SAP and they are a good selling point too.

Individual plumbers don't like them because they have to fit an extra 3/4" plastic drain pipe and in general they are totally ignorant of them. The first initial batches of condensers made by UK manufacturers in the mid

1980s were abysmal and never lasted, unlike the Continental makers. So these dumbos still believe condensers only last 3 years or so.
Reply to
IMM

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