New boiler

[Gary Cavie]

We are looking at changing our boiler at some point in the near future. The current one is a Stelrad thing, a huge, wall mounted affair, which sits on the wall in the kitchen. WOuld like to change to a smaller unit which will at the same time be shifted into the utility room (which isn't built yet).

The heating guys that I know and have spoken to tell me to get a wriggle on, to get it done before the law changes and condensing boilers are the only option.

The setup at present is gravity HW, and pumped CH. It is a three bed bungalow, with 6 rads and a towel rail. What would be a good make / system to look at, and why are condensing boilers so frowned on by those in the trade? I know the actual spec will have to be determined a bit more accurately, I'm just after suggestions for makes. I'm a bit off Suprima at the moment, as we had some sort of power spike here recently, and 3 people that we know of had the PCB go toes up in their Suprimas - common thing, or just unlucky?

Thanks

Gary

[Dave Plowman]

Why? When my old lump finally dies, I'll get a condenser. Assuming you have to buy a new boiler, they will pay for themselves over their life.

[IMM]

Gary,

The heating guy is way out of touch. the current crop of condensers are very good and are a superior design to the boilers of 10 years ago. I assume one bath and one shower. If I was you I would go for a mid to high flowrate condensing combi.

You wont complain at the pefformance of this boiler. The Glow Worm is a very good stainless steel hreat excahnger boiler.

Glow-Worm 38CXi Condensing Combi Boiler(Reference #108652)

? BTU's - 130,300 ? kW - 38.2

? DHW Flow Rate - 15.5 L Per Min @ 35°C

? Height - 715mm ? Width - 450mm ? Depth - 334mm

? Sedbuk Rating A - 90.6%

? Built In Frost Protection

? Fully Modulating

PRICE INCLUDES DELVIERY

Price £934.13 Including VAT at 17.5%

[Andy Hall]

That's a nonsense, in that they are a much better option. There is a likelihood of the law changing so that they become the only way to achieve a specific efficeincy level, but the date has not been announced.

Because this particular trade has a lot of old women who base their opinions on what they hear in the plumber's merchants from their mates. This is not universally true of course, but I have heard misinformed conversations on a number of occasions.

There is always a grain of truth of course. Some of the early UK manufactured products which consisted of a second heat exchanger bolted into an existing design, really were very poor because the parts were not designed to work in the environment of the slightly acidic condensate.

In Germany and Holland condensing boilers have been commonplace for more than 15 years.

I would recommend that you buy a German designed and preferably manufactured product such as Vaillant, and you won't go too far wrong.

In the spec. range that you will need, there are a lot of good products. Avoid any of the traditional British makes such as Potterton.

.andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

[Graeme]

Avoid any of the traditional British makes such as Potterton.

Are they really that bad. We've got a Potterton Flamingo which is 20 years old and has only needed one repair (some thermocouple thingy).

[Dave Plowman]

That's the trouble. 20 years ago Potterton were the 'Rolls-Royce' of boilers. Recently they've been selling on reputation rather than merit. And now have a dreadful name which will take some time to fix - if ever.

[Snowman]

I've heard that Worcester (Bosch) are very good - any comments on those? An installer has priced a Vaillant and a Worcester for me.

Peter.

[IMM]

The Flamingo is a basic boiler. The current crop leave a lot to be desired.

[IMM]

Vaillant are generally good. Parts are "very" expensive. W-B is good, but went through a bad period after Bosch took them over. They appear to have gotten better.

[Andy Hall]

Both have a good reputation, yes....

.andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

[Colin Wilson]

I had a Worcester Bosch fitted about a month ago, and the installer knew something was wrong during commissioning. He had already told me it was likely to be beyond anything he could fix, and that if it carried on I would need to get one of their engineers out.

...This is sounding grim so far...

The same night it was commissioned it went out on fault 3 times, so I spoke to the installer went along with the recommendation to contact them direct.

I rang at 11am that morning (Thursday) and they said they would be onsite Friday (yes, the next day) - the PCB was replaced and everything was hunky-dory by 10am. Their engineer said something along the lines of he "hoped it hadn`t put us off as its usually very good kit" - and in all fairness, with service as efficient as that they`ve already been recommended by us to anyone considering central heating !

[geoff]

In message , Dave Plowman writes

Absoeffinlutely

A lot of my customers refuse to fit Potterton boilers any more. They're just fed up with call backs when they don't work / fail prematurely etc

[geoff]

In message , Colin Wilson writes

24i ?

[IMM]

Someone here doth noweth nothingneth about boilers.

[geoff]

In message , IMM writes

Yes, if you stopped posting it would avoid a lot of confusion

[Jerry.]

Yes, YOU !

[Gary Cavie]

Realy showing my ignorance here, but do oil boilers work on the same principles as the various types of gas boiler? eg condensing, combi etc, or is it a totally different ball game?

Any good references for explaining what all these different types are, and how they work etc?

[Colin Wilson]

28SiII

[IMM]

From a user point of view the boilers are similar: system, combi, condensers etc. The main difference is that they use different fuels and hence burners. There are wall mounted oil combi's about, just like the gas versions. Oil boilers do tend to be larger than gas boilers. Generally, they also do not last as long.

Gas boilers make better condensing boilers, as condensate start to form at theoretically 57C, whereas for oil it is 47C. Gas also contains far more water per cubic metre of gas burnt.

Oil condensing boilers are very expensive and the payback to non-condensing is very long, to the point were it may not be worth it. The difference in price from gas non-condensing and condensing boilers now is marginal, and going condenser is the only way. Next year most non-condensing gas boilers will be phased out as they are too inefficient.

[Dave Plowman]

More of the IMM 'understanding' of basic chemistry.